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Author Topic: What Constitutes 'Fair Play'?  (Read 5833 times)

Idiom

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Re: What Constitutes 'Fair Play'?
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2008, 10:35:56 pm »

Quantum dump?
Shouldn't it be hammer space?
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Earthquake Damage

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Re: What Constitutes 'Fair Play'?
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2008, 07:36:41 am »

I think hammer space is more like another dimension.  Quantum dumps are clearly visible within normal space (ignoring the "tiles in DF are separate universes since they are infinitely large" argument).
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Neonivek

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Re: What Constitutes 'Fair Play'?
« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2008, 07:39:59 am »

No the difference between Hammer Space and Quantum Dumps are as follows

Hammer Space is taken from your person and seemingly comes out of nowhere

Quantum Dump is a infinately large pile of objects that never expand past its boundaries
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 07:48:29 am by Neonivek »
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Maggarg - Eater of chicke

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Re: What Constitutes 'Fair Play'?
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2008, 09:09:52 am »

my explanation for quantum stockpiling is that the rocks in DF are as they appear in-game. That is to say, two dimensional. Ergo, you can stack as many as you want. Existential angst solved.
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Greiger

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Re: What Constitutes 'Fair Play'?
« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2008, 09:54:09 am »

So what would happen if somebody put a quantum stockpile into a bag of holding and then put the bag of holding in hammer space?

Anyway I didn't mention perpetual motion in my first post.  I actually have nothing against perpetual motion, and I like using it.  Sure it's a bit exploity but what are you going to use the power for? 

*Powering a spike field with pressure plates?  A single dwarf with a lever can do that, and likely do it much faster. Not like yer short on migrants.

*Massive waterfall in a major area of the fort?  A royal dining room has a much better effect and is also much easier to do.

*Reloading a flood trap that was emptied on a goblin siege?  A few dedicated pump operators can reload it without much more time than a powered system can, still well within a season.  Again, not like yer short on unskilled migrants.

That's why I don't mind perpetual motion.  Hydro power has little actual utility now outside of aesthetics.  Once it becomes more useful I'll likely stop using it. 

Besides if you have an infinite water source, unless yer on an ocean it would be so much easier to just hang 60 waterwheels in yer river and call it a day.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 09:59:31 am by Greiger »
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Puck

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Re: What Constitutes 'Fair Play'?
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2008, 12:52:09 pm »

Since you cannot really win DF, you have to figure out yourself how you enjoy it the most. So I guess, if you are somebody that enjoys "cheating" in a game, you should do just that. And if you don't like it, well, you just don't.

Personally I like to build my fortresses with one helluva complex watersystem for whatever use I can think of. Waterfalls for beautification, wells in every area just for the heck of it, automated irrigation, waste disposal, traps, conveyor systems and so on and so forth.

So I'm not that interested in the military part of the game. But I wouldnt wanna mod my goblins out. So I build a set of drawbridges and traps to keep my dwarves safe. That's enough of a challenge in that part of the game for me, thankyouverymuch.

Also I use atomsmashers to get rid of excess stone and all kind of garbage. But I dont just dump the stuff in there. I designate a stockpile for all the stuff I want to get rid of and use flowing water to move the stuff right in the atomsmashing area  (The stone for instance needs to be turned into stonecrafts first, so it can "float"). Building that so it's automated and doesnt kill off your dwarves is -again- enough of a challenge for me.

I think it's a good thing that we get tools to "cheat away" the parts of the game we don't like that much so we can focus on the stuff we enjoy. After all, no winning conditions and stuff...
Now the only downside to this is... you have to know how you roll  ;D
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 12:55:03 pm by Puck »
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Angellus

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Re: What Constitutes 'Fair Play'?
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2008, 05:58:54 pm »

Traps : Number of them, placement of them, using them at all
- Lots, all in front of the main entrance, in a long corridor which is required for the gobbo's to follow after I lift the drawbridge.

Player Traps : Harder to make, but also harder for NPCs to avoid
- I do not know what I should expect from this  ;D

Atom Smashers :
- None, waste of material.

Quantum Stockpiles : (Using dumps to stack more items on one square than normal with the intention of un-dumping them)
- One, near the masons, on the workshop z-level of my fortress, that way no-one has to walk far as I have everything in my mines dumped there and reclaimed.

Quantum Dumps : (Just dumping all the stone on one square)
- Technically my form of stockpiles ^^

Crossbows : High Portion of your army
- Always one and only one legendary to stand at the end of my (nearly) endless trap corridor, just in case...

Modded Races : Using excessively powerful races, using boosted races
- No new races, although I just speedboosted my dwarves to make the game a bit more quicker.

Modded World : Adding in extra weapons or more powerful metals.
- None added, but kittens drop adamantine when trown off from my death-tower of evil intensions  ;D

Perpetual Motion : Using the holes in the mechanics scheme to avoid the need to use external power (one waterfall provides way more power than it takes to pump the water back up)
- Not needed, I rely fully on windmills.

Pathfinding : Exploiting the pathfinding AI with moats or blocking off passages that a truly intelligent entity could figure out.
- Nope, hate it when those idiots wall themselves in though >_<...

Nobles : Killing off nobles because of their demands
- I just ignore them, exept the clerk, he gets a opulent throne room for his counting jobs  :)

Sheriff/Hammerer : There are a number of ways to short circuit the judicial system by crippling the hammerer, not appointing a sheriff, or generally breaking the law enforcement system.
- I do have a sherff, but only because I like the fact that I have the need to fill that spot up, I hate the hammerer and thus exclude him from my fortress  ::)
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R1ck

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Re: What Constitutes 'Fair Play'?
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2008, 12:48:14 am »

I use a few traps, but other than that I try to play the game "clean". I think changing the aspects of the game using
stuff on that list and other stuff is just a way for players to downplay parts of the game they don't like, so they can
focus on what they like to do. It's not cheating, they're just trying to get the most out of DF. Hopefully when
the game is complete(in 20 years) "exploits" like those will be unnecessary.
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Linthar

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Re: What Constitutes 'Fair Play'?
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2008, 07:47:55 am »

Traps : I tend to play without traps, but I consider them fair play as long as theirs only a limited number, two or three lines of them at most, especially if their cage traps so you can have fun playing with prisoners. Basically as long as there isn't enough to make you immune to sieges, I'd consider them fair.
Player Traps : Completely fair. Their hard enough to set up to justify their power, and have a tenancy to backfire. Plus ridiculous engineering projects are really the spirit of the game.
Atom Smashers: Completely unfair against invaders, ok for killing dwarves or destroying unwanted objects.
Quantum Stockpiles : Fair. Even if someone sets out to purposely abuse this is does not give a great advantage over well placed stockpiles, and requires a lot more effort.
Quantum Dumps : Giving the ridiculous amount of stone the game produces, and that this is the only way I know of to specify certain rooms for the stone to be taken from, fair until the game mechanics change to produce a viable alternative.
Crossbows : I don't use many, but I would call this fair.
Modded Races : While this can be a bit cheesy, whats fair and whats not needs to be decided by each individual player. Not to mention that more powerful races can be balanced with more powerful other things.
Modded World : See above
Perpetual Motion : Never worked with pumps so I can't say.
Abusing Pathfinding : This is somewhat cheap, but is counterbalanced by the fact that there usually is a invading force sitting outside your fort just waiting for your dwarves to leave.
Killing Nobles : I don't do it, but this feels like an issue of personal preference.
Disabling Sheriff/Hammerer : See above.
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