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Author Topic: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS  (Read 50550 times)

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #165 on: November 29, 2008, 10:00:13 am »

I use emule. ;D
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Devastator

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #166 on: November 29, 2008, 11:33:11 am »

I have no idea..but according to Brad, it will be the best singleplayer AI what ever made.  :)

Yeah, just so you know, they probably already hold that title for retail released games.  The question is if it will be good enough, not that it will be good.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #167 on: November 29, 2008, 01:53:17 pm »

How much is "enough"? I wonder when we'll be able to conduct ingame chat with AI's using normal chat windows, not diplomacy options.
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Asehujiko

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #168 on: November 29, 2008, 02:38:18 pm »

When they mean a smart ai, do they mean an ai that stops sending waves of melee goblins only to be burned by your magma moat after the xth wave gets friend, or an ai that will build a magma moat on it's own if it sees that yours is doing great?
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Tormy

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #169 on: November 30, 2008, 08:57:36 am »

I have no idea..but according to Brad, it will be the best singleplayer AI what ever made.  :)

Yeah, just so you know, they probably already hold that title for retail released games.  The question is if it will be good enough, not that it will be good.

Yep well, Galciv II. ToA + latest patch = best singleplayer AI. what I've ever seen...and since this upcoming fantasy TBS will be much more complex, I guess that Stardock will have to work a lot on this AI. This is one of the reasons, that they plan to host the beta for a very long time. [IIRC the beta will be hosted for months..]  :)
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Tormy

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #170 on: November 30, 2008, 04:53:34 pm »

wow..just WOW!  :o 8)
New dev. journal update..and it's plain awesomeness...
http://forums.elementalgame.com/331361

Unlimited expansion by us and the players

"Some of the concepts we're talking about will be hard to envision without actually having the game but one of the real innovations we're trying to introduce with Elemental is the concept of unlimited expansion.

The key to this is not hard coding civilization capabilities but rather leaving them open-ended.

So let me start at the beginning:

When someone first gets into Elemental, the relationships will be simple between things. A player who wants to design a horse mounted knight will need to have researched animal husbandry which lets them train horses. They will need to have a city that has used one of its tiles to make use of a herd of wild horses on the map. They will need a mine on a metal deposit to create the armor.  And once they have all those things, it'll be a matter of training and equipping the knight.

The above example is one of the more complicated relationships one will see initially in Elemental...

But what about users who want to keep making more and more sophisticated relationships?

Maybe I want to have knights equipped with sunfire dread chain mail riding tamed Demon steeds and the knights have a secondary power of carrying tomes of unmaking which vastly increase their damage in battle?

Well, there would be a host of technologies one would have to have researched. There would have to be spells researched as well and new city buildings that produce these tomes and then have been enchanted to make these tomes magical. The demon steeds would require various technologies and the finding of demons to be tamed in the first place and so on and so on.

How do you control the level of sophistication here so that it doesn't become too complicated?  The answer is with a new series of game options that are practically games unto themselves.

Because, did I mention, that all the things mentioned in the second example were things produced not by us but by players and broadcast to all other players so that you have access to them automatically? No expansion packs needed. No paying for mini-content needed. It's just thousands of players creating cool stuff and broadcasting it to one another.

So here's how players control it.  They have a screen called the Bestiary where they can control what types of creatures are in game. When someone broadcasts content, Stardock moderators rate and define it more closely. From this screen, players can decide what types of creatures they want, the quality of the submission desired (we will rate the broadcasts in terms of production values as well), etc. These creatures will have associated technologies that are attached to them that are required.

There will be additional screens for managing resources, techs, etc.

So for most players, they will probably stick with what we include or maybe a handful of expansions that Stardock provides. Others will insert some content made by other players. And still others will go for a truly huge scope experience.  But the point is that players control this.

Now someone might say that a lot of this sounds too ambitious. But Stardock already does a lot of this, today, right now, on WinCustomize.com with its non-game stuff. 

Now what is the gameplay result of this? One of the cooler things that will result is that the units that players make use of will really be different from game to game. And there will be a real pay off in the battles for players who have managed to assemble the necessary components to create some of the truly sophisticated units.

In multiplayer, the default it going to be the least common denominator settings. We will probably have other options but we won't know until we've had a chance to play it online with you guys to see what other settings are the most fun."

----

Now someone has asked the following:

Q: "Sounds really good. I guess this wouldn't work for SP since how the AI would identify what is better to produce? (I hope this game have SP...) If there is I hope this path don't let the SP too limited in production for the ones who like it. Hope its another feature, and not one that would exist and eventualy cover other productions. If not, is just great to allow, seems viable, and will certainly be used and make the matchs more different and varied, without changing the vanila gameplay way since they are still chains of production with it being increased/decresed (or resource being rare) has balancement is needed. I think this is the right game to make use of this."
A: I'm [Brad Wardell] coding the AI and designing the system so it will definitely work in single player too. The AI will adapt.
Look at how the AI in Galactic Civilizations II: Twilight of the Arnor automatically adapts to player mods. This is just taking it a few steps further."  8)



« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 04:57:28 pm by Tormy »
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Devastator

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #171 on: December 01, 2008, 08:29:35 pm »

Dang, this is indeed going to be sweet.  I was always of the opinion that the best way to balance stuff was to keep adding cool stuff and tweak costs.  Like Total Annihilation.
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Tormy

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #172 on: December 06, 2008, 10:05:09 am »

Update!  8)
http://forums.elementalgame.com/331788

Are you a human? Are you SURE?

"One of the first things we're going to be beta testing for Elemental is a new way of doing computer AI. As some of you know, the main reason I got into development in the first place was to write computer AI for games.

Elemental is an opportunity to try some new things.  For example, the initial betas of Elemental are going to require the user to be on the Internet to play.  The reason is that the computer AI won't be inside the game itself but instead be implemented as AI players on the Impulse game cloud that we're building.

So you would, in effect, start up Elemental like you would a multiplayer game except that the people joining your game wouldn't be people. They would be AI people. And the AI work won't just be in how they play the game but how they behave -- in the lobby and elsewhere with the goal to make them feel like real people (except not jerks).

These AI players will have their own Impulse accounts with their own standings in the rankings, their own achievements, etc.  The code won't execute on your machine, it'll be all server-based.

The final version of the game, of course, will not require the user to be on the Internet. We will bundle a number of the AI players in with the game to play single player, off-line games.

But what I hope to do is to build a cloud of multiplayer AI players that I can constantly be updating and enhancing in near-real time based on the data I get back from them on how they were beat, what exploits were used against them, what chat messages were sent to it that it needs to respond to (I'll probably have it respond "no speako English" for the most part).

In the final version of the game, these AI bots will be out there ready to join on-line games.  We will give players the ability to discriminate against the robots if they have some sort of anti-robot issue and don't want them joining their multiplayer games. But the match-making system otherwise won't know which players are controlled by humans and which are controlled by the robots.

The nice thing is that for people who are used to playing with strangers on-line, the robots will help fill out the on-line community with people to play against who are explicitly designed to play like people (well like decent people not the people who drop immediately). 

I expect the first version of this to be included with Beta 1 of Elemental (i.e. this isn't some "future" thing) which we expect will be out this Spring."

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Boksi

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #173 on: December 06, 2008, 10:18:46 am »

I can honestly only use one common word to describe this, and that's awesome.

There may be uncommon words that describe it better, but I can't be bothered to get a thesaurus to check.
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IndonesiaWarMinister

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #174 on: December 06, 2008, 10:26:53 am »

Wow. Just wow.

This is good. At least good match versus AI! I shall defeat them all, because in 2003-4 my nickname was 'The destroyer of AI'.

Great. If I get money I will pre-order it. This is just plain awesome. Hope I can make my own eastern empire.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #175 on: December 06, 2008, 10:47:36 am »

Here's what Thesaurus says about that:

alarming, astonishing, awe-inspiring, awful, beautiful, breathtaking, daunting, dreadful, exalted, fearful, fearsome, formidable, frantic, frightening, grand, hairy, horrible, horrifying, imposing, impressive, intimidating, magnificent, majestic, mean, mind-blowing, moving, nervous, overwhelming, real gone, shocking, something else, striking, stunning, stupefying, terrible, terrifying, wonderful, wondrous, zero cool, exceptional, extraordinary, outstanding, preeminent, remarkable, singular, towering, uncommon, unusual.

I don't know about hairy, nervous, real gone, or some others, but yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:49:19 am by Sean Mirrsen »
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wallish

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #176 on: December 06, 2008, 01:07:36 pm »

Here's what Thesaurus says about that:

alarming, astonishing, awe-inspiring, awful, beautiful, breathtaking, daunting, dreadful, exalted, fearful, fearsome, formidable, frantic, frightening, grand, hairy, horrible, horrifying, imposing, impressive, intimidating, magnificent, majestic, mean, mind-blowing, moving, nervous, overwhelming, real gone, shocking, something else, striking, stunning, stupefying, terrible, terrifying, wonderful, wondrous, zero cool, exceptional, extraordinary, outstanding, preeminent, remarkable, singular, towering, uncommon, unusual.

I don't know about hairy, nervous, real gone, or some others, but yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

I think a combination of mind-blowing, majestic, stupefying, and awe-inspiring is a good start.

mind-jestic-awe-fying.  Mindjesticawefying.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #177 on: December 06, 2008, 01:16:15 pm »

Mindawestupejestic?

How about stunning, magnificient, astonishing and breathtaking?

Magnabreathastonning?
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- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Mephansteras

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #178 on: December 06, 2008, 02:29:02 pm »

Magnabreathastonning?

That sounds more like what happens when you throw a goblin in a water/magma chamber.
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wallish

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Re: Elemental: War of Magic - Stardock's upcoming fantasy TBS
« Reply #179 on: December 06, 2008, 04:32:41 pm »

Mindawestupejestic?

How about stunning, magnificient, astonishing and breathtaking?

Magnabreathastonning?

Why not combine those two?  Mind-magna-west-breath-stupe-stonning-jestic.

Mindmagnawestbreathstupestonningjestic.
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