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[Granite]

Yesterday, I e-mailed Toady One this idea.

Silk is pretty hard to obtain, except through trading. But that's not fun at all, is it?

So, here's my idea:

First of all, make trading for silk a little harder. Since it's rare and hard to obtain, the merchants should require a little more. Also, they would bring it only in little quantities.

Then...

Cultivation of silkworms (Sericulture). They would produce medium quality silk, something between the Spider's and Giant Spider's silk.

The silkworm is the larva or caterpillar of Bombyx mori (Latin: "silkworm of the mulberry tree"), the domesticated silkmoth.

Making silk:
The player would have to capture moths and wait for them to breed.
The real world moth's eggs take about ten years to hatch. Obviously this isn't feasible in-game, so I'd suggest 1-2 years. Another silkmoth species, perhaps?
Then, after the larvas hatch, more 2-4 seasons or so, and they would enclose themselves in cocoons. It's here that the player would extract the silk. Many cocoons are required to make a pound of silk. Unfortunately this process kills the larvae, so, to keep the production, a few larvas would have to be allowed to grow into Moths.
The whole process would take much time and effort but silk is valuable, so I think it'd be worth and fun.

For info on silkmoth and silkworm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombyx_mori

If you like this idea, support it in the DF Eternal Suggestion Voting!

[Pilsu]

For an effort like that it'd have to be more expensive than giant cave spider stuff

[Shades]

For an effort like that it'd have to be more expensive than giant cave spider stuff

Takes time, but not effort. Getting a giant cave spider to give you reliable silk production without being overly dangerous takes effort.

[Dwaref]

The issue here is more like stopping random garments to be produced out of giant cave spider silk. I can sustain a community on killed hunter's and the occasional invader's giant spider silk items.

Also, the game already has a mechanic for getting silk from a critter, and it's the cave spider.
If dwarves should domesticate anything, i'd suggest that they'd do that with the cave spiders. There doesn't even exist any 'our-world' silk ingame.

Cave spiders live in chasms. Some have cave spiders, some don't.
In any case, you should be able to request cave spiders in a trade. They'd become valuable if domesticated.

[Neonivek]

Well Spiders being a bug cannot EXACTLY be domesticated... You can only handle them (unless these ones are smarter then the common spider)

Since they naturally hunt Dwarves you cannot get that behavior out of them.

[Granite]

For an effort like that it'd have to be more expensive than giant cave spider stuff

hm... Well, why not?! Anyway, that wiki article says this larva's silk is the best type known.

Takes time, but not effort. Getting a giant cave spider to give you reliable silk production without being overly dangerous takes effort.

Yeah, this was my point. I just used the word 'effort' to emphasize 'time'.

Also, the game already has a mechanic for getting silk from a critter, and it's the cave spider.
If dwarves should domesticate anything, i'd suggest that they'd do that with the cave spiders. There doesn't even exist any 'our-world' silk ingame.

You know, in our world, spider webs can really be used to produce silk.
And I don't think insects in general can be domesticated like that. But moths are harmless. So, it'd make producing silk easier in a way. At least, would give us an alternative.

[Neonivek]

I mean just look at Bee Keepers, ignoring the fact that the ordinary bee lives about a week or something.

They don't teach Bees to make honey in certain locations... They just give them nice homes where Bees are bound to live.

They don't teach bees only to pollinate certain flowers... they just make sure that the flowers they want the bees associated with are near the hives.

They don't teach the bees not to sting... they use Beesuits and smoke

You don't Tame/Domesticate insects/Bugs/Spiders... You just make sure the environment is such that they produce for you without putting yourself in danger.

In real life places that collect Spider Silk are HUGE Green areas with tons of Spiders.

Though there are some things Toady COULD add...

1) The ability to Defang or Devenom a Cave Spider and Giant Cave Spider
2) Allow Spider Wranglers to wear a Spider Suit
3) Allow food lures so you can tempt the Spider far away so a dwarf can collect the silk

With these three you can just leave HUGE areas with two entrances or multisections. Place the Lure when you want to collect the Silk then get out of there.

[G-Flex]

I'm not sure if defanging a spider reliably, and having the thing live, would work very well. It seems kind of iffy, given that they have open circulatory systems and exoskeletons and dwarves don't exactly have antibiotics.

That being said, I don't think silkworms or anything are necessary. We already have cave spiders and phantom spiders, which serve that function in the gameworld in an interesting manner. However, it would be nice if silk didn't have the exact same value as plant fiber; it should perhaps be just slightly higher.

[Silverionmox]

The caravans right now are a combination of the horn of plenty and a wishing well. Once the caravan arc is finished, easy-to-obtain stuff will probably be limited to mudstone mugs. That's a good thing because fortresses will be different based on their environment: in a place where cave spiders live, dwarves will wear cave spider silk; elsewhere there's no silk, except possibly in the climate that supports silk moths. And I haven't seen mulberry trees yet. That reminds me of laquer trees.. All those trees.. it's more the elvish way anyway - woe the poor dwarf that has to collect mulberry leaves at noon each day!

[numerobis]

Food lures exist and are spelled k i t t e n.

I've seen descriptions of exploiting GCSs, so it can be done now, with an appropriate amount of effort.

The price issue is a problem, I agree.  GCS silk seems too common for its price, and plant fiber costs more than all but the dearest leathers.

[Mephansteras]

So, we have two issues here:

1) Making silk rarer in the world, especially GCS silk.

GCS silk should be VERY rare when it comes to people wearing it/trading it. After all it's very rare to have a chasm, rarer still to have a chasm with a Giant Cave Spider, and then they'd still have to go through the effort to collect the webs from it. Maybe materials should have a [RARITY] Tag in the raws? So Rope Reed Cloth would have [RARITY:100] meaning anyone can grow it if they have a suitable biome. Whereas Cave Spider Silk would have [RARITY:25] or whatever, since even if you have a chasm with cave spiders in your area, you have to have discovered it to get the silk. Giant Cave Spider Silk could have [RARITY:1], since even if there IS a chasm, with a GCS, you'd have to have gone through the effort of finding it and setting up a safe collection system.

That way, the chances of anyone showing up at your doorstep other then Nobility and Goblin Leaders wearing GCS silk items would be very, very low.

2) Adding in Silk Moths to the game. I don't think Dwarves would bother, since they can get cave spiders. But Humans would do this, and I'd rather they had normal silk then cave spider silk. I can't really see Elves being willing to kill the larva to get the silk, but maybe they'd find a humane way?

[Dwaref]

You don't Tame/Domesticate insects/Bugs/Spiders... You just make sure the environment is such that they produce for you without putting yourself in danger.

When i said 'domesticate' cave spiders i was referring to something like this practice.
As for 'taming' cave spiders, it should be able to be done already(although not in a silk-production system). Critters can already be set as pets.

I can't really see Elves being willing to kill the larva to get the silk, but maybe they'd find a humane way?

Stitch them pig tail sleeping bags?

[Idiom]

Dwarves already capitalize on stone good exports, and if the player could monopolize on silk easier, I think it would become a little unbalanced.

I always imagined each race would have a valuable and desirable good that they could provide it en masse for cheaper than anyone else.

[Dwaref]

Dwarves already capitalize on stone good exports, and if the player could monopolize on silk easier, I think it would become a little unbalanced.

I always imagined each race would have a valuable and desirable good that they could provide it en masse for cheaper than anyone else.

Each race can craft different items which the others cannot. Elven wooden weapons can be bought and used by dwarves as an example.
I'd prefer it if the sites have the goods which you speak of. Humans houldn'r be forbidden to craft stone items if they have access to stone any more than dwarves should be hindered from crafting wooden weapons.
Or at least that one may learn to craft such items, say hire an elven woodcarver and learn how to make wooden plate armor.

[Neoskel]

Food lures exist and are spelled k i t t e n.

Actually it's spelled u r i s t m c s o a p m a k e r.