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[Mohreb el Yasim]

I just can't kill dwarves.
I can't.
I care for them, and I believe that the only proper way for a dwarf to die is in battle, honorably, taking half a dozen goblins down with him.

I make exceptions for nobles, but purely annoying me is no excuse. They need to cause the death of an innocent dwarf before I'll pull the lever.

God, I'm a pussy. xD

Nice to know I'm not the only one ...

one more here,
but i go more far, i turn sieges of, make a nano fortress in a terrain with just a brook on it no other features, and i enjoy oh yes i enjoy to make a nice small farming/trading comunity, i make useless fortress guardes and an army too but it never combat becouse of no sieges (but i train them well) and i make them really nice armors and wepons, all decorated in the same way for each squad.
am i unimaginative? couldn't i deal with sieges?
even the most dumb people can make a drow trap, aligne wepon traps for insta kill or make xbow squads with fortification. so i don't consider myself a worst player. i just like it that way, what i want to see is an utopic place where dwarfes can live in peace and harmony, with all the small details wich makes me happy about.
i won't consider myself a bad/cheater/silly player NOT EVEN IF YOU SAY ME THAT I AM AND YOU EVEN USE THE CAPSLOCK (hell, how can one write in capitals and think it will make his arguments more walable ...)

[catpaw]

Well I consider goblins as a nice way of getting free iron into the fort if you didn't (yet) find any iron in the mountain. They will always just die at the traps, and if you make a wall large enough around fishing and some wood area, you never need to go outside trapsecured area eitherway.

[Mohreb el Yasim]

Well I consider goblins as a nice way of getting free iron into the fort if you didn't (yet) find any iron in the mountain. They will always just die at the traps, and if you make a wall large enough around fishing and some wood area, you never need to go outside trapsecured area eitherway.

i tougth about that too i don't know that is my game eventualy easyer or harder withouth goblins, i need to trade for all resources i want (in a nano fortress no way to get anithing worth it to mine ...)

[Dareon Clearwater]

Yeah, no ill effects. Right. So when you get the 'Your fortress has scared away the migrants' message, don't blame me.

I wish I could get that message.  I have been starving, drowning and spiking my migrants to death for 20 years.  Urist McFisherdwarf is still going "Gee, Cog McPeasant, that there outpost has been the death of every single dwarf that set foot in it within two months.  But boy oh boy is that hermit producing a lot of marble blocks and muskox tallow soap!  Pack your bags, buddy!"

On the plus side, I never have to worry about how I'm going to buy out the caravans.

As a note, I'm not messing with the popcap on the hermit fort because I'm also running two regular forts as well, and don't feel like either editing the init file every time I want to switch projects or quitting and starting a new instance of DF when I want to switch (i.e have one install with popcap 1, another with normal cap).

[Jamini]

It's certainly true that finding unique (and not-so-unique) ways to kill of immigrants is slightly more imaginative than simply lowering your population cap (which doesn't really work anyway, fyi.). However, I find the act of murder itself an unimaginative way to solve a population problem, no matter how imaginative you are at acting out the murder itself.

There are other ways to get rid of excess dwarves that do not involve killing them.

1. Embark on a harder area.

Simple really, if you find yourself with a lot of dwarves you DON'T want, I suggest you start in a biome where it's difficult to keep your dwarves alive. Nanoforts in terrifying areas (with mythical creatures), Zombie Giant Eagles, Dark Goblin fortresses, Rivers and Oceans.

2. Play a challenge fort.

Subsist entirely off of hunting or fishing. Survive off of animal husbandry. Don't use traps. Building aboveground. All of these methods of playing will result in dwarven deaths, which will naturally limit the number of dwarves that come to your outpost (this normally happens once you pass 20 dwarves in a fortress. Before you have 20 you will get incessant immigration waves, especially if one of your founders dies.)

3. Transform them into something else/ make them hostile.

While it's technically cheating, DF companion can be used to make immigrants hostile... or even change them into goblins/troglodytes/Giants/dragons. Honestly it can make them even more interesting in their own right.

4. Play in a world without a dwarven civ.

The Last Dwarves in the World


5. Never kill a noble, and have a sheiff/forterss guard and jail.

Eventually you will fail to fulfill a mandate and somebody dies, hey it's even technically playing the 'right' way. whuddya know?


6. Don't export a lot of goods. (To the dwarven caravan)

If you don't export a lot, and don't make a lot, you don't get many immigrants. Many of the people who complain about popcaps are also buying out entire caravans every year. Think about it, if you were desperate for work and young, wouldn't a new and highly productive city that had 'high unemployment' be attractive to you?

7. Plenty more.

There are PLENTY of other ways to limit immigration that doesn't resort to murder or genocide. It's simply a fact that most players don't want to deal with it.

Closing statement: Killing off 'excess' dwarves is not creative, no matter how creatively you kill them. The act of murder itself is pretty much on par with playing with a popcap (while quite obviously less viscerally satisfying) and should you want immigration at a later point, murdering citizens is actually detrimental to play. Thus, I prefer population caps over the obvious alternative.


P.S. In my main fort for this version, I had deliberately (I state deliberately, because a number of my dwarves died without my consent) killed only two dwarves. The first was a baron who like adamantine. The second was his consort.

[Charlemagne]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"People who don't act in precisely the same way as me are unimaginative"

Listen muffin, people who think that the way they do things is the only proper way are the unimaginative ones. It's adorable that you think that people who don't share your opinion are "cheaters" but once you get out of highschool and gain some perspective I think you'll realize why almost everyone else in the thread thinks you're acting like a fool.

[Tormy]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"People who don't act in precisely the same way as me are unimaginative"

Listen muffin, people who think that the way they do things is the only proper way are the unimaginative ones. It's adorable that you think that people who don't share your opinion are "cheaters" but once you get out of highschool and gain some perspective I think you'll realize why almost everyone else in the thread thinks you're acting like a fool.

The OP has posted that sentence?  No comment...
Anyway I think that the forum is going downhill..way too many trolls/spammers registered on this forum nowadays, just check out the topics what have been created on the last week for example....we could use some moderators.

[makar]

All other arguments aside, my computer starts to hurt around 100. So why should i not change the pop cap to 100 or 90?

That pop cap is in place because of hardware limitation and to keep the game playable, so why shouldn't i use it exactly for that purpose?

Why should i let an external reason (hardware limitation) force me to squash endless waves of incoming dwarves (or like an concentration camp doctor point the usefull dwarves to a work place and the useless to the incinerator?)

Setting up a process industry of murder is not the type of game i wish to play.
End of story.

[Pie]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"People who don't act in precisely the same way as me are unimaginative"

Listen muffin, people who think that the way they do things is the only proper way are the unimaginative ones. It's adorable that you think that people who don't share your opinion are "cheaters" but once you get out of highschool and gain some perspective I think you'll realize why almost everyone else in the thread thinks you're acting like a fool.

Well done on achieving the patronising tone you were going for, but you lost a few points for the misquote and straw man. Again, I look forward to your thought out response to this. Or maybe even an on-topic post?

Also, Tormy, I love how you judge my character based upon a single statement... perhaps next time you could try to read a few more before you label people and put them into one of your defined groups.

I also think Jamini brings up quite an interesting point - I would have to agree with most of his suggestions, but I would say that more imagination is required to solve your overpopulation than resorting to the pop-cap method and killing them in an imaginative way is requires more imagination than killing them in a boring way (it goes without saying). But yeah, I would agree that some of the techniques you suggested are better than mine, especially for people who don't like playing an evil dictator.

[Alabaster]

Ultimately the game is an open sandbox where you can play however you choose, and who cares how anyone else judges that?

To lighten everyone up, here is some video of my dwarven recruits sparring in the barracks.  Their wrestling is coming along quite well I think.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Neoskel]

To lighten everyone up, here is some video of my dwarven recruits sparring in the barracks.  Their wrestling is coming along quite well I think.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dude, you freakin' shaved your dwarves?! Now that's evil.

On topic, pop caps and the use thereof are entirely up to choice. What i'm sick of is when someone asks for help controlling their population growth, someone suggests changing the pop cap, the solution requester states that he doesn't want to do that and then you have people calling him stupid instead of trying to help with the conditions set forth. It's totally the individual's decision.

I read the OP as more of a challenge than trying to force people to do things the same way.

I bet this wouldn't be as much of an issue if Pie didn't have such a disgusting avatar.

[G-Flex]

I read the OP as more of a challenge than trying to force people to do things the same way.

I bet this wouldn't be as much of an issue if Pie didn't have such a disgusting avatar.

This would be more true if he didn't say right in the post and hell, in the thread title, that people SHOULDN'T use pop_cap.

[Romantic Warrior]

This thread illustrates pretty effectively that how you say something is as important as what you are saying. If you want people to discuss your idea rationally, it's usually a bad idea to insult them. Suggesting that your audience is a bunch of unimaginative cheaters will probably do the trick.

As for me, I am lazy when I play games. I don't mind difficulty but I do mind being annoyed. If I can remove parts of the game that annoy me, I will. Immigrant floods annoy me. *snip*

[Mohreb el Yasim]

I bet this wouldn't be as much of an issue if Pie didn't have such a disgusting avatar.

all avatars like that should be forbidden ... or we could just say that moving avatars are not permited ... However yours Neoskel scared me for longe time until i found that it is not 2 scary Halooween face but two birds ... (really for first look it is hard to find out ...)

[Carcer]

Personally I use pop cap cause I'm still horrible at the game, and don't like the idea of losing to starvation.

No, I'd rather build up my fort slowly but surely, and then go out by way of massive goblin siege or bronze Collosus or something memorable.