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[cbfog]

DF is already so intimidating that a casual gamer downloading it might be immediately turned off when faced with such a giant intricate UI.. you have to really want to play this game to PLAY IT if you know what I mean.

It seems that this game right now is really popular among a certain population I.E. the population that thought AP Trig or Calculus was a blast, or people who are just enchanted with Byzantine interfaces. Not that I want to have a bunch of morons swamp the forums with a bunch of leet speek, but DF is so complicated that it really takes an effort to learn.

And every month another layer or obscure option is added, and the only way anyone can keep up with this is either through this forum or the Wiki. Someone coming into DF at the present time would be so confused and would have to learn so much just to even begin playing that they might just not even try.

[KaelGotDwarves]

More like - I think Dwarf Fortress is destined to be the type of game Toady wants to play/make, and we put in our input on the forums as we alpha-test it.

It's not that the UI is THAT intricate. Okay, I remember being puzzled and staring at the thing, but all the commands are THERE. There's letters besides the list of options and even I didn't need the wiki to figure out what they were. (Though I needed the wiki to give me advice on what to do)

I'm not even sure what your post was trying to accomplish.

If you were saying DF isn't for mass market casual halo gamers, well surprise! It isn't.

And it shouldn't be. There's plenty of other games for that.

[Moneo]

The initial learning curve was steep, but well worth it. I started a few months back and am now wishing there were more layers and obscure options to discover.

It seems that this game right now is really popular among a certain population I.E. the population that thought AP Trig or Calculus was a blast,

I don't agree with this. I never thought that high school maths were a blast.

I can see what you're saying but, while DF is destined to appeal to a niche market, I don't think anybody (Toady One included) is worried about capturing a bigger audience. Unless others know more about it than I do.

[Muz]

Not really. Only if it was released to the public in its current status. I think Dwarf Fortress could easily appeal to the same fan base as SimCity with graphical support and a proper tutorial & 'dwarfopedia'. It's just the learning curve that's keeping it back.

I did hate trig and calculus, but like with DF, once you do learn it, it's suddenly easy. I'd love to make a game like DF one day soon 

[Shades]

The initial learning curve was steep, but well worth it. I started a few months back and am now wishing there were more layers and obscure options to discover.

The learning curve required to play the game isn't really very steep at all. Sure there are a lots of options and things you can do, but a player in their first game pretty much only has to get the hang of the interface, one of the many ways to get food and drink and then sieges later on.

The food thing at least is far far easier than in the 2D version, and if they work out how to do traps sieges aren't a problem.

After that there is a lot of things to learn about the game, but again it's more 'oh that is neat' than 'I keep dieing because of xyz'.

I'll agree the interface takes a bit of getting used to, and the wiki is invaluable there. Things like the number of times people try to mine open ground because they don't realise they have to dig down first is amusing and shows where the problems are, the commands are clear, where and how you use them isn't.

[Archaeologist]

DF isn't just a game for Calc nerds.

I'm a artsy type who despite massive frustration and rage at the game, decided to give it a try for the umpteenth time.

Why?  Because one can only READ stories about Elephantine initiated genocidal warfare, Fuck the World levers, Dragons steamrolling through Sieges, Sankist, etc, for so long.

Besides, quotes like this are COMEDY GOLD.

"The default state of a dwarf is madness.  Sanity is not a right, nay, it is a PRIVILEGE that must be EARNED."

"He admires Tradition"
"Is that why the Goblins keep besieging this place?"
"IT'S NOT JUST A SIEGE, IT'S A FAMILY DAY OUT!"

[Necro]

I suck at math and never liked it; I'm in my 11th year now and are taking the easy math (you can take "practical" (easy) or "theoretical) (advanced). Still doing simple algebra. I have no idea what the stuff mentioned by the OP is.

[Wiles]

I would fall into the category of those that don't enjoy math as well... I'm an English literature student.

DF is pretty easy to understand once you get past the "what the hell is all this crap on my screen" phase. People coming from a gaming background that includes roguelikes will pick the game up a lot quicker than someone who has never touched one.

[G-Flex]

DF will probably have more mass appeal when and if the interface gets easier to use and there's better documentation (granted, the wiki is a good resource).

That being said, yeah, it'll probably always be at least somewhat a niche game, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Not everything appeals to everyone.

[Gantolandon]

It's not that DF interface is so difficult. Try for example any flight simulator - the effect would be similar, if not worse. I can't even play games with title beginning from "F-16" for example - I can't even make it through the tutorial.

It's not difficulty that's a problem... It's just that some actions are extremely incomfortable to do. Sometimes it's because of lack of control over some vital parts - like encrusting items, which is horribly frustrating. Sometimes just because sheer amount of activities involved, like the old constructions (fortunately, changed).

[Habblatic]

I'm not into math either.
The thing with DF that appealed to me was the open ended gameplay.
Bloodthirsty carp, elves and elephants seemed pretty interesting too, ofcourse.

[GlennS]

I think the basic concept has pretty broad appeal.  The game implementation is complicated, so restricts that to people who are happy to spend some time on games.  The interface is difficult to understand and use, and restricts the actual user base to the small fraction who are willing to master it's arcane workings.

Mouse support and tabbed menus would open it up to 10x as many people in my opinion.  Although whether this would translate to 10x as much donation for Toady I don't know.

Also, it would probably draw a lot more people if it had an options menu in preference to mucking about with the init file.  Could also have some presets where you put in your resolution and it autodwarvenly  picks a suitable grid size.

[Tormy]

DF is already so intimidating that a casual gamer downloading it might be immediately turned off when faced with such a giant intricate UI.. you have to really want to play this game to PLAY IT if you know what I mean.

Yep, this is pretty much correct, DF's playerbase is very limited right now [people who dont care about the UI/tilesets are playing basically], but this might be changed once Toady will implement a good interface + "give us" full tileset support.

PS. There are lot of similar threads btw. 

[Kazindir]

The initial learning curve was steep, but well worth it. I started a few months back and am now wishing there were more layers and obscure options to discover.

The learning curve required to play the game isn't really very steep at all. Sure there are a lots of options and things you can do, but a player in their first game pretty much only has to get the hang of the interface, one of the many ways to get food and drink and then sieges later on.

The food thing at least is far far easier than in the 2D version, and if they work out how to do traps sieges aren't a problem.

After that there is a lot of things to learn about the game, but again it's more 'oh that is neat' than 'I keep dieing because of xyz'.

I'll agree the interface takes a bit of getting used to, and the wiki is invaluable there. Things like the number of times people try to mine open ground because they don't realise they have to dig down first is amusing and shows where the problems are, the commands are clear, where and how you use them isn't.

I thought I was alone!
I don't think the learning curve is steep either. If I had to call it anything I'd call it "long". It's not steep as the basics are, well, pretty basic, and the vast majority of things you can do in DF are not necessary to get the average fort running. Vast mechanical devices, waterworks, architectural behemoths, milking maggots or armouring an army etc are all pretty much optional.

It's just those initial steps, like working out what button to use to find out what that § is, or how to dig a hole.

/edit I would say actually on of the main barriers might be more that those options are so well known amongst the community - if you look through most comunity games etc they seem like things you have to do, which is asking a lot for a new player to take in. The reality is though they're mostly just done for fun rather out of necessity.

[Tormy]

The initial learning curve was steep, but well worth it. I started a few months back and am now wishing there were more layers and obscure options to discover.

The learning curve required to play the game isn't really very steep at all. Sure there are a lots of options and things you can do, but a player in their first game pretty much only has to get the hang of the interface, one of the many ways to get food and drink and then sieges later on.

The food thing at least is far far easier than in the 2D version, and if they work out how to do traps sieges aren't a problem.

After that there is a lot of things to learn about the game, but again it's more 'oh that is neat' than 'I keep dieing because of xyz'.

I'll agree the interface takes a bit of getting used to, and the wiki is invaluable there. Things like the number of times people try to mine open ground because they don't realise they have to dig down first is amusing and shows where the problems are, the commands are clear, where and how you use them isn't.

I thought I was alone!
I don't think the learning curve is steep either. If I had to call it anything I'd call it "long". It's not steep as the basics are, well, pretty basic, and the vast majority of things you can do in DF are not necessary to get the average fort running. Vast mechanical devices, waterworks, architectural behemoths, milking maggots or armouring an army etc are all pretty much optional.

It's just those initial steps, like working out what button to use to find out what that § is, or how to dig a hole.

Nop you are not alone, the learning curve is not steep. I remember my first try with DF. It was hardcore, but only because I skipped to read the documentations. After I read it, the game wasnt hard at all...in 1-2 days I was playing like a veteran I guess.