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[Dolohov]

It would be nice if my fisherdwarves gained some skill other than fishing while filling my fortress with raw fish; why not have them use spears to catch fish, and so get a little practice in at the same time (the same way my hunters get practice with their weapons).

[Ascii Kid]

For that matter, why not have them use anything at all.  It always struck me that fishing poles/nets/spears where missing from the game, and farming tools (even a hoe or shovel), considering the attention to detail given in other areas.  Or maybe it's in the works, who knows.  =->

[Mephansteras]

Right now it seems that any non-weapon tool is abstracted out in the labors. Same way we don't have hammers/tongs/billows/etc in the forge, or knives/pots/etc in the kitchen. Not sure if those will ever be part of the game, since I don't think I've ever read anything from Toady commenting on it.

Wouldn't surprise me if they went in, though.

[Rockphed]

I foresee farmers using their ☼Iron Hoe☼ to crush invaders the way miners use their +Copper Pick+.  All in all, it would be cool if people set to Farming (Fields) used some tool.  Using spears for fishing would be interesting.  Would it allow fisherdwarfs to catch carp and such?

[Neoskel]

Imagine trying to embark with all these 'required' tools weighing down your points. Not gonna work.

[Duke 2.0]

Imagine trying to embark with all these 'required' tools weighing down your points. Not gonna work.

 So give us more points. I suppose if tools are added, a general price-balance would be needed.

[Idiom]

Actually, the point costs could use some re balancing.

[Mephansteras]

It would also make the blacksmith MUCH more important for the fortress, since you'd probably end up making the tools necessary for most professions on-site. Which, of course, is fairly accurate for how pre-industrial societies worked.

You'd probably have to abstract a lot of it out into general clustered items. So instead of making a hammer, and saw, and chisel, and plane, etc for the carpenter's shop, you'd just make -carpenter's tools- which would be required to build a carpenter's workshop. Having better tools would probably effect the quality of work you could do there. But then, what do you do when you later make *carpenter's tools* and want to upgrade? That could become a pain. Maybe some mechanism where workshops can be upgraded without destroying, rebuilding them?

I guess the question here is, how much abstraction are we ok with? More abstraction means less we have to worry about, but less we can effect. Tools effecting the quality of work, for example, means that having a blacksmith who can make legendary tools a big bonus for the fortress, and would allow some more synergy between crafts.

It could also get out of hand. Imagine if all workshops got worn down over time, and you had to replace stuff. New barrels for the dyers workshop, new tools for the mason, etc. It'd make more work for you to deal with. Unless, of course, the manager automatically queued up work to replace worn out items. If that included clothing, that might be nice.

It'd certainly help keep the economy moving at later stages of the game, and give more of a reason to import/export stuff, as new tools/barrels/etc would always be needed to replace the old failing ones.

While I'm on that thought...why doesn't the still require a barrel or bucket to create?

[Dolohov]

What if the spear (or more generally, other tools) were not required for the job, but attempting the job without it would be at a penalty.  Say, the job would be performed as though the dwarf were two skill levels lower?  Dabblers and novices would not be able to do the job at all.  That way, when you're departing, you need to decide a) whether you want to do any fishing at all at first, and b) if you do, whether to accomplish this by giving a dwarf the fishing skill, or buying a spear.

[Draco18s]

While I'm on that thought...why doesn't the still require a barrel or bucket to create?

Because you need the barrel to hold the job when it's done.

[Dwaref]

I added a suggestion to introduce tools a while ago. http://www.bay12games.com/forum/eternal_voting.php
It's not got many supporters as of yet.

[Footkerchief]

I added a suggestion to introduce tools a while ago. http://www.bay12games.com/forum/eternal_voting.php
It's not got many supporters as of yet.

I would if I had a 4th vote.

[Neonivek]

You don't need metal spears... in fact that would be a bit of overkill.

You could just use wooden spears.

[Jetman123]

I would say just having an odd "task cancelled: <Job-related item> not available" when you're doing many labors later on, impairing efficiency. Have a blacksmith do the "make tools" labor now and again at the forge, or a craftsdwarf make them out of lesser materials. Would give skill, make good practice. You could also trade away nonspecified "tools" to caravans.

[Dwaref]

You don't need metal spears... in fact that would be a bit of overkill.

You could just use wooden spears.

I also put the Weapon Crafting suggestion in there. It's got no supporters.

Hehe, i used to forbid crossbows from the RAWs and made spears and maces a ranged weapon that hurled 'insults' that did 1 damage each(bolts do 100). Of course i never crafted any insults.
The end result was that bowyers could make wooden/bone spears and maces.
It worked pretty nice. 4 recruits took down a giant cave spider with 4 of those wooden spears.
One drawback was that caravans came by and tried to sell me wagonloads of *<=Insults=>*.