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Author Topic: Hardcore DF  (Read 1724 times)

Idiom

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Hardcore DF
« on: September 14, 2008, 02:07:56 pm »

So I was starting to make a mod for Vanilla DF to make it as difficult as possible, while still reasonable.

Heres what I know I want:
Crops:
-Plants take 1-2 seasons to grow
-Plants only grow in single seasons to force crop rotation
-All plants require some form of milling or processing and then cooking before they can be eaten
-Drink base values dropped (less euphoria from excellent booze, yes?)
-Little less yield per seed, little more plant required per brew
-Plant byproduct values leveled

I increased the [GROWDUR:X] to 1 season, and had each main crop down to only 1 growing season. Even with 50 seeds of each, they're red on the crop selection list as if I have no seeds. What?

Enemies:
-Removed [BABY_SNATCHER] tag from goblins (every baby snatcher incident now a full blown invasion)
-Process trigger tags lowered from 2 to 1 (goblins invade within 1-2 sleep cycles from the start guaranteed)

I was considering giving goblins better equipment, but then you get better equipment from them.
How can I make the goblins sturdier?
How can I mod it so it's guaranteed the Dwarves start at war with everyone?
Can a goblin, elf, and human force siege you all at once?
Could I make the humans and elves like the goblins, with the process trigger tags so that they will be guaranteed to show within one season?
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Erom

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2008, 02:57:00 pm »

This is almost exactly how I play DF, with these exact modifications, so I think I can answer most of your questions.

Crops:
-Plants take 1-2 seasons to grow
-Plants only grow in single seasons to force crop rotation
-All plants require some form of milling or processing and then cooking before they can be eaten
-Drink base values dropped (less euphoria from excellent booze, yes?)
-Plant byproduct values leveled


These are all possible and easily done.

-Little less yield per seed,


The tag that controls this is broken, so this is unfortunately not possible.

little more plant required per brew

That's hard coded, unfortunately, so also not possible.

I increased the [GROWDUR:X] to 1 season, and had each main crop down to only 1 growing season. Even with 50 seeds of each, they're red on the crop selection list as if I have no seeds. What?

Think about it this way - if the plant can only grow during Spring, and spring is 1008 units long, and the plant takes 1008 time units to mature, then it doesn't have time to mature - because even during time unit 1 of Spring, there are only 1007 time units left and the plant needs 1008. In other words, you need to make growdur slightly shorter than a season in order to have time to actually plant the crops at the start of the season.

Enemies:-Removed [BABY_SNATCHER] tag from goblins (every baby snatcher incident now a full blown invasion)-Process trigger tags lowered from 2 to 1 (goblins invade within 1-2 sleep cycles from the start guaranteed)

That works well. You can also replace [INTELLIGENT] with [CAN_CIV][CAN_LEARN], this removed the ability of the goblins to speak, so they can not make treaties, so they are always at war with everyone.

I was considering giving goblins better equipment, but then you get better equipment from them. How can I make the goblins sturdier?

I find the best way is to make them physically sturdier - up their [SIZE:X] and give them some natural damage resistance [DAMBLOCK:X]

How can I mod it so it's guaranteed the Dwarves start at war with everyone?

The only way to 100% guarantee it is to remove the ability to speak from all other races (an idea just occurred to me - try removing speaking just from the dwarves instead of everyone else?) but this makes them all hostile to _everyone_ including each other, so some race is almost guaranteed to get killed off during world gen. A better solution, but one that doesn't work every time, is to give dwaves opposite ethical values than everyone else, and make everyone else match. IE, split the ethics tags in half, give dwarves UNTHINKABLE in half and ALLOWED(?) in the other half, and make the other races all mirror images of the dwarves.

Can a goblin, elf, and human force siege you all at once?

I have no idea! Find out!

Could I make the humans and elves like the goblins, with the process trigger tags so that they will be guaranteed to show within one season?

If they start at war with you, changing the process trigger tags should work fine.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2008, 02:58:36 pm by Erom »
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Neoskel

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2008, 07:15:57 pm »

Elves are only active in spring and humans are only active in summer, so no elf+human+goblin sieges. If they did, they'd all fight each other anyways, which would be fun to watch.  :D
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Rotinaj

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2008, 07:46:23 pm »

You should also nerf traps considerably
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Untelligent

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2008, 08:38:39 pm »

You should also nerf traps considerably

Sadly, the most effective trap of all, the Cage Trap, cannot be nerfed.

You can always make goblins [trAPAVOID], though.
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Erom

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2008, 11:16:29 pm »

Elves are only active in spring and humans are only active in summer, so no elf+human+goblin sieges. If they did, they'd all fight each other anyways, which would be fun to watch.  :D
Changing active seasons is as simple as modifying a single tag, though.
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EvilCheerio

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 03:55:54 am »

I just have one thing to say. Someone give me a copy of this badass DF.
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Tormy

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2008, 08:56:21 am »

You should also nerf traps considerably

Something better: do not use traps at all.  ;)
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Idiom

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2008, 06:49:48 pm »

I think I broke it.
Goblins now arrive in trade caravans frequently with sensible goods at reasonable prices. It's ticking me off. Said 'no trade' next to the goblin civ name on the embark screen. Thought it might be that the goblins are at peace historically, but all my worlds generated off these raws do this. Any idea what tag or lack of might be doing this?

Quote
Think about it this way - if the plant can only grow during Spring, and spring is 1008 units long, and the plant takes 1008 time units to mature, then it doesn't have time to mature - because even during time unit 1 of Spring, there are only 1007 time units left and the plant needs 1008. In other words, you need to make growdur slightly shorter than a season in order to have time to actually plant the crops at the start of the season.
Ah. I'll have to bump it to two seasons for the growing window then. Nothing grows in winter though in my mod.

Quote
Elves are only active in spring and humans are only active in summer, so no elf+human+goblin sieges. If they did, they'd all fight each other anyways, which would be fun to watch.  :D
I can make them active in all seasons, remove their abilities to make treaties, buff them up a bit, so they are constantly fighting outside your fort 24/7. That would be fun to watch.
Quote
Sadly, the most effective trap of all, the Cage Trap, cannot be nerfed.

You can always make goblins [trAPAVOID], though.
All major civs, megabeasts and semi-mega beasts get the avoid trap tag.


I would expect this done... whenever I have time, which is near never. If anyone feels like slapping this together, feel free to.
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Pickerel

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2008, 12:10:29 am »

The person who said that multi-season plants won't work is partly wrong.  I have plants with growdur of 3000+.  In fact many of the things you asked above I have already done on purpose to my own game.  Anyway, with such a long growdur, you do have to plant in the right season, or else it will go red when the YEAR is no longer 3000 long.  So while they were wrong about the season change, they were right that year change becomes a problem for me.
However since it works between seasons, you could easily have a growdur of, say, 1500.  If you set it's growing season to be spring and summer, this means that it must be planted in early spring or it will be redded out on the list.  This is good, because it is more realistic to need to plant things at the right time of year to even get a crop.

Examples: Peas are relatively cold weather plants, liking late winter to early spring, but fast growing.  Have growdur of 700 and only spring as the season, forcing planting early in the season to get a pea crop.  Squashes, however, are more of a warm-weather thing, and take up to 3-4 months to be ready to harvest sometimes, hence their association with fall.  Have 1000-1300 growdur, with growing seasons of summer and fall.  Thus you must plant in early to mid summer to get a crop at all that year, which will come in fall.
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Erom

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2008, 11:08:59 am »

I think you misunderstood what I said, or quite possibly I could be wrong - let us use your squash as an example...

In my understanding, if you have >1 season maturing crops, they have to have at least two season they are allowed to grow in. For the squash, you need to have them able to grow in both Summer and Fall. Your 1300 growdur plants, if they only had Summer as their active season, would show red during summer, never able to plant, and grey during the rest of the year. It is only because you have both summer and fall that they show white and able to plant for a time during summer. Specifically, a 1300 growdur plant will,

1) Show white for the first 29% of the summer
2) Show red for the rest of the summer and fall
3) Show grey during the winter and spring.

What I was saying is that, if you want a crop that can only be grown once in a year, you can do one of two things:

1) Make the growdur less than a season but more than half a season and only allow the plant to grow on that season OR
2) Make the growdur more than a season but less than two seasons, and allow the plant to grow during two seasons

Or, of course, make the growdur more than a season and a half but less than 3 and let it grow in 3 seasons, ect.

As a final wrinkle, you are also right that there is something special about the year boundary - that is, the winter/spring boundary is "hard" unlike the rest which are "soft" - you can not have a plant carry over from a winter planting to a spring harvest, as we've been discussing for spring/summer + summer/fall + fall/winter. That is, unlike the other seasons, a plant with growdur 1300 and growing seasons of Winter and Spring will show red during all of winter and spring, and grey during the other months, and not be able to be planted.

Hope that clears it up.
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Hyndis

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Re: Hardcore DF
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2008, 12:53:25 pm »

Remove [INTELLIGENT] from goblins and replace it with [CAN_CIV] and [CAN_LEARN], similar to what kobolds have. Notice how kobolds will always be hostile on the map regardless of their diplomatic status with you on the embark screen.

Also remove the [BABYSNATCHER] tag on the civ entry. You'll have hostile goblins every time.
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