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[zagibu]

Yeah, i was thinking I'd implement something like the comparative voting system mentioned before in this thread, but then came BlackSash along and he is currently working on a completely new system anyway, so you might want to direct your suggestions to him.

[Thanshin]

Maybe it's just an IT view but I'd add a "cost" to each item and then give people points to spend in that cost.

i.e.: In the time improved hauling is implemented, a large amount of smaller changes could be done.

For that I'd suggest:
1 - Making a flat list, no votes.
2 - Politely asking Toady One to estimate an effort cost for each item (from 1 to whatever he considers is the hardest suggestion).
3 - Politely asking Toady One how much effort cost could get into a single version.
4 - Letting people vote that many points among the items.

Trivial Example:
1: Four items: A, B, C and D.
2: Toady One assigns costs: A=6, B=8, C=4, and D=2.
3: Toady One estimates a cost of 12 can be build into a version.
4: People distribute 12 points among the items.

In this simple case the results would only be ACD, BC or BD, but with more items it works better.

[Granite26]

Addressed Suggestions for the upcoming release:

I went through the suggestion list, and these are the ones that appear to have been addressed sufficiently to clear.  (Some of them may come back in a 'do more!!!' sort of way, but still).  Basically, anything where the POINT was resolved or touched, even if the method wasn't used.  For instance, with all the new stuff, #66 Training dummies should be marked off, although people that REALLY WANT training dummies could resubmit.

4. (229) Designate Safe Area
11. (119) Automatic switching to sparring weapons
33. (24) Owned Barracks
40. (18) Stats Improvement
44. (14) Doctors/Hospitals
55. (9) Gender Differentiation
66. ( Training dummies
83. (5) Life Cycle
108. (3) Detailed Statues
138. (2) Distinguishable Champions
142. (2) Improving the game
147. (2) Scars and prosthetics
151. (2) Taking control of squads.
160. (1) Emergeny Mode/Signal
174. (1) Tamable unicorn
186. (350) Underground Diversity (Closed)
May be resolved

54. (9) Assign rooms to Noble/Administrative positions
(I think this is part of the new positions?)
42. (15) Watch command to follow actions of a particular dwarf
(This one has been declared 'useful' and 'probably needed', but I don't recall it being worked on.)


That's roughly 10% of the suggestions currently up there, from a broad selection of difficulties and popularities.  Ignoring the suggestions that are basically their own arc, it's also a good chunk of the total votes.

[Draco18s]

I will go ahead and edit the ones I control (4, 11, 40, 66) to indicate as such.

[Granite26]

I would wait for the release... Getting people to vote for 'newer' stuff before they see the new stuff seems like it would lead to poor decision making.  Plus, I would never dream of taking away the feeling of fan service granted by allowing Toady to kill 400 votes worth of requests on a release.

I just wanted to say 'Wow! that's a lot of what we've asked for!'

[Draco18s]

I would wait for the release... Getting people to vote for 'newer' stuff before they see the new stuff seems like it would lead to poor decision making.  Plus, I would never dream of taking away the feeling of fan service granted by allowing Toady to kill 400 votes worth of requests on a release.

I just wanted to say 'Wow! that's a lot of what we've asked for!'

No, they aren't gone yet.  They've just been edited to indicate that the issue will be removed as the requested feature will be in the next version.  I won't actually be removing the vote until the release.

And what I'll actually be doing is removing and recreating the request, albeit with a description of "don't vote for this, your vote will be wasted, this is a placeholder item to prevent the creation of a duplicate item.  This is to prevent a feature that was previously worked on from gaining continued popularity despite the fact that Toady has indicated that no feature will be worked on twice in a row."  Or something along those lines.

Right now the voting item is only depreciated as the issue has been worked on and people can begin moving their votes, if they so wish.

[Granite26]

Yeah... see... that still seems like it's robbing some level of satisfaction, but that's me, and I don't mind playing mind games with people

[Draco18s]

Yeah... see... that still seems like it's robbing some level of satisfaction, but that's me, and I don't mind playing mind games with people

It's not satisfaction robbing.  I've been planning on doing this (and have stated as such multiple times) since the voting page started, that's why I own nearly all of the top 60.*  I was no the originator of the ideas, I just populate the system with the first two dozen ideas so that things could get started; I got there first.

The point is, that after the next release any items that have been completed shall be cleared of votes.  I would IM all of the voters, informing them to re-allocate their votes, but alas, the list of names was removed, so I can not.

*Slight exaggeration.  I own some 27 suggestions, 7 of which are top 10 (and all the top 5; 18 in the top 40).

[Toady One]

Hopefully something like a dev log announcement and an announcement here will catch most people once the release comes up.  Since the releases after this one are going to figure in the top 10 suggestions and so on, I think the added emphasis should bring enough attention back here to get people to revote if their votes were dropped.

[Draco18s]

I think the added emphasis should bring enough attention back here to get people to revote if their votes were dropped.

Yepyep.  And the reason for creating the dummy vote ideas is to prevent things being the top item for several releases.  The idea is still around, it's just not active.

[G-Flex]

Hopefully something like a dev log announcement and an announcement here will catch most people once the release comes up.  Since the releases after this one are going to figure in the top 10 suggestions and so on, I think the added emphasis should bring enough attention back here to get people to revote if their votes were dropped.

May I ask why the top ten specifically?

I definitely understand going for what's been oft-suggested, but I've always thought that using the democratic votes of the general public has been sort of a sketchy idea when it comes to game design decisions, and a lot of good suggestions get overlooked for various reasons.

[Draco18s]

Well, if you look at the current top 10:

*Improved Hauling
Currently a big issue.

*Workshop Material Selection
Regain some functionality from the 2D version

*Standing production orders
Because when you run out of barrels booze production stops and it's hard to make sure it gets running again when your 10,000,000 booze gets drunk.  Big issue for many players

*Designate Safe Area
Major issue

*Job Priorities
DAMN TRADER!  STOP HAULING FURNITURE!

*Improved (Speed Up) Pathfinder.
Biggest source of lag in the game

*Improved Mechanics
Currently "power" generated from windmills and waterwheels isn't used for much of anything.  New features!

*Return of the Guild Masters
More 2D functionality

*Farming Improvements
Because as is farming is crazy easy and not terribly realistic.  Farming in the 2D version was actually a challenge.

*Auto-mining
Less micromanagement is always a good thing.

Many people want these issues fixed or features added, some of them were lost after the 3D upgrade.  Personally if just those 10 things were added/fixed I'd actually be pretty happy with the game.

[Toady One]

Hopefully something like a dev log announcement and an announcement here will catch most people once the release comes up.  Since the releases after this one are going to figure in the top 10 suggestions and so on, I think the added emphasis should bring enough attention back here to get people to revote if their votes were dropped.

May I ask why the top ten specifically?

I definitely understand going for what's been oft-suggested, but I've always thought that using the democratic votes of the general public has been sort of a sketchy idea when it comes to game design decisions, and a lot of good suggestions get overlooked for various reasons.

I've been using short-hand lately I guess, but I originally said and continued to mean that I would look at the top 10 suggestions seriously, think about the underlying problems/desires that many players have associated to those suggestions, and then think about how they might be addressed.  I don't intend to cede design or design priorities to a popular vote, but I think the suggestion vote is a good way to see what matters most to people playing the game.  If some internet meme had topped the vote or something, I would ignore it entirely, and if something like electricity or steam power or rifles had topped the vote, I'd probably have put up a note much earlier on about why I didn't think I'd be going there.  As it stands, I think the top 10 are pretty good, although they do maybe highlight the problem with the voting system in terms of broader objects having a bit of an advantage, and I don't think I'm going to do everything exactly as stated in the voting item/associated threads.

I'm looking at the top 10 specifically because these are the suggestions with the most votes, and determining the overall desires of people playing the game is the function of the voting system that the regular suggestions forum can't provide.  I still read all of the suggestions that are made here, and I'm not denying them before I look at the top 10, but the top 10 are popular and therefore merit a look.  I'm sure I've overlooked things, but I feel I've been very thorough in my reading and categorization of the suggestions made here.

The next set of releases (hopefully I never have a single release wait remotely as long as this for a long, long time) are going to cover several things, as far as we've decided so far, in no particular order:

1) Improved sieges in dwarf mode
2) Adventurer skill use, adv entities and some town dynamics
3) Improved adv cave exploration
4) Whatever comes out of looking at the top 10 suggestions

I'm sure the suggestions made here in their entirety, as well as our own ideas, are going to impact 1-3 as well as whatever comes out of 4.

In addition, back to the issue of letting a popular vote decide priorities, sometimes I just don't have strong priorities when it comes to certain issues.  For instance, say I wanted to work on dwarf mode a bit, and I wanted to pick between better mechanics and putting guilds back in.  Sometimes I'm really into working on something, and sometimes there's a natural order, and sometimes it just doesn't matter that much.  In the case I just mentioned, where I don't have a strong preference and there isn't a strong natural order, a popular vote works as well as anything, so as it stands, mechanics improvements before guild improvements would be fine.  And they'd both end up done anyway.

[G-Flex]

Understandable.

I think I was just interpreting you a bit too literally earlier. Sometimes my brain takes a vacation like that.

[zagibu]

I might have some time to work on the voting system some more in a month, or so, when exams are over. I've also meanwhile enjoyed a course in webdesign with php, PDO and smarty, so the voting system might present a chance to turn the theory into practice. Or maybe I'll do it for the exam preparations?

I know, I already promised something during spring break, but then came BlackSash, and I didn't want to compete with his work. But it's gotten a bit silent in his thread, if I'm not mistaken...