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[Torak]

Watch out, next year's big jRPG might be called Eternal Suggestion.

[Draco18s]

Great poll! One question: Can we change "Center on announcement" to also include some management of what is announced? Nothing too elaborate, but it would be really nice to select which stones get announced when discovered and which don't (for example).

Done.

[G-Flex]

I'm totally going to catch flak for this, but I'm going to have to play devil's advocate with regards to the premise here.

I've noticed a lot of democratic suggestion threads, and honestly, I think people put too much faith into the idea.

I mean, I get the point of checking out what kinds of suggestions people want the most. But I don't think it's necessarily going to result in the best possible suggestions, for a few potential reasons (some of which I'm probably wrong about, and some actual reasons I probably haven't considered).

For one, the more cool-sounding/trendy suggestions can snowball votes pretty easily.
Secondly, the people who play a game aren't necessarily people who develop games, and don't necessarily know how to best implement a change or fix a problem. This includes me! So you end up with suggestions that are too specific, or too broad, people tend not to take feasibility into account, or whatever.
Also, there's the basic fact that popularity doesn't necessitate quality or anything like th at.

I don't even think I'm actually trying to argue against suggestion voting. I just think it can only be taken to a certain level of relevance/seriousness. At least it can give an idea of what people want.

[Erom]

I think it's incredibly powerful as a tool to see what your player base wants, but the point that sometimes the player base is idiotic is well taken. Just the same, to me what seperates good game developers from great ones is, beyond one or two points about actual game design, the ability to interface with the community, know what the users wants, and at least be able to explain your decisions in relation to that. Like "I was planning on implementing ideas foo, bar, and baz soon, and I did foo and bar first because they are #3 and #5 on the suggestion list, while baz was like #15. By the way, I have no plans to pursue #2 because it would decrease frame rate by an unacceptable amount, and while #1 is a really cool idea, it's not something I'm interested in just at the moment." Even though the communities top two picks weren't implemented, they feel like their ideas got heard and considered, which builds good will. And the developer, who had three ideas, had a tool to decide which idea would be the best received.

Because the development of DF is over-time and donation based, it actually models something similar to an MMORPG- continuous pay for continuous development. For that reason, like an MMO dev, Toady has a vested interest in pursuing the aspects of his project that are most likely to generate donations (so long as they don't compromise his game design, of course).

Personally, I'm really thrilled about Toady putting this page up, and I think it really shows what a quality dev he is.

[Nethras]

Based on reading previous suggestions threads, I'm pretty sure that anything getting at least 2 votes will get read by Toady, and simple interface/behavior changes that at least have a few people willing to vote for have a decent chance of being implemented at some point - the simpler the better of course.

And yes, I did specifically register for the forums so that I'll be able to see that page and vote in the near future

[G-Flex]

Don't get me wrong; I think better tools for suggestion/thread-handling are great.

Also, I totally didn't mean what I said as a criticism of Toady. I think he does a great job with all of this, including community interaction, and the amount of feedback he gives us concerning development is excellent.

[Christes]

Yeah, if you do more with them then they'll become less of a priority. All you have to do is improve them whenever they start rising to the top. That will keep people pretty happy.

Most likely, someone will register to vote for underground diversity and then vanish.

[Veroule]

Toady has always paid attention to the forums.  I believe the new page gives him a valuable tool to help in deciding what features he already has planned should be given a higher priority.  It also should help him in determining what things need to be considered as a feature to plan.

Another extremely useful thing the new page does is to provide a link to suggestion topics.  This helps to keep all the thoughts and debate about a given suggestion in one place.  While Toady might not use any single item in the entire topic, it is likely that someone will have said something of use.  As always Toady is the one that decides on what actually makes it into the game.  Seeing a hundred different thoughts about a given issue can help to create a working solution.

Giant ramble:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I voted for changes to farming among other things, and am finally actively explaining all the things I have thought about it since the 3d version first came out.  That is close to a years worth thought I have put into what is right about food production and what isn't.  It doesn't make my ideas, on that subject, any better then anyone elses.  In fact most of my consideration on the subject is based on statements from others in many topics over that year, and a general knowledge of the cores and bloats Toady published.

The reason why I think it deserves a higher priority then other things is that food is the first cause of war like behavior.  The first cause of fights is sex, and a fight is between just a few members of a group.  Wars are 2 or more groups battling each other.  When food is scarce waging a war is much harder, but a small shortage causes migration and expansion; which leads to conflict.  Lack of food also tends to reduce birth rates and increase disease rates; these are among the bloats.

Having a more cohesive food system can lead to a reasonable abstraction in off site locations.  The changes in supply will lead to different goblin behaviors.  Right now it is bother some that the goblins can send 30 trained and equipped fighters out for an ambush every season.  Sure the army arc is going to do a major step towards fixing that, but without some correllation to the food supply it will never totally work.

The caravan arc also helps to address this by making caravans 'meals on wheels' for the goblins.  This should have the predicatable result of caravans shrinking in size while the number of guards on them increases.  At some point the goblins are forced to consider the caravan too hard of a target and would attempt to raid a fortress with a greater force or turn to canabalism.  Either way food has to be recognized as a motivating factor.

Having a cohesive food system that can easily approximate a production in offsite locations and during world gen, is absolutely necessary to making food a motivating factor in wars.

It really isn't a democratic process here.  It is the most effective form of governance ever, the benevolent dictatorship.  Letting us vote is just another benvolence and method of giving a voice to the ignorant masses.

[Othob Rithol]

Yeah, if you do more with them then they'll become less of a priority. All you have to do is improve them whenever they start rising to the top. That will keep people pretty happy.

Most likely, someone will register to vote for underground diversity and then vanish.

A lurker's vote is still a vote. Toady also stated early in the first Top10 that he was skeptical about accounts made to cast a single vote.

The only way I can think to combat what you are fearing is what I wrote a few posts up: When Toady says "I'm done with UD for now", I'm going to remove the entry until the list of ideas has regained some freshness. Poof!: All the accrued phantom votes vanish.

As someone else said above, Toady is going to look at all the ideas. All this voting does is say "Toady, X number of people think you should read this entry/thread". A great idea with 3 votes is far more likely to be implemented than an awful idea with 91.

[Tormy]

Yeah, if you do more with them then they'll become less of a priority. All you have to do is improve them whenever they start rising to the top. That will keep people pretty happy.

Most likely, someone will register to vote for underground diversity and then vanish.

A lurker's vote is still a vote. Toady also stated early in the first Top10 that he was skeptical about accounts made to cast a single vote.

Oh please...this is a game, do you really think that some people would just create 20 accounts and vote for X suggestion? That would be pathetic. 

[Othob Rithol]

Sadly, yes. This board gets heated sometimes, and I can imagine someone getting fired up enough to spend the next two hours making logins, posting 8 times, and voting for their own idea.

Just like I did  . (just kidding of course...or am I?)

And I would have gotten away with it, it it hadn't been for those meddling dwarves!

[Toady One]

Oh please...this is a game, do you really think that some people would just create 20 accounts and vote for X suggestion? That would be pathetic. 

He he, we've had pathetic trolls in the past.  I wouldn't put it passed some of those guys.  This isn't about the people here.  A spammer could come in and suggest shoes over and over or something.

I've updated the script to allow guests and escaped lunatics to view but not vote.  I think I managed it, and I tested it out, but it's quite possible I screwed up or forgot to check for something.

[Tormy]

Oh please...this is a game, do you really think that some people would just create 20 accounts and vote for X suggestion? That would be pathetic. 

He he, we've had pathetic trolls in the past.  I wouldn't put it passed some of those guys.  This isn't about the people here.  A spammer could come in and suggest shoes over and over or something.

I've updated the script to allow guests and escaped lunatics to view but not vote.  I think I managed it, and I tested it out, but it's quite possible I screwed up or forgot to check for something.

Oh...
..in that case this change [guests and escaped lunatics cannot vote] is most welcome Toady. 

[Christes]

Yeah, if you do more with them then they'll become less of a priority. All you have to do is improve them whenever they start rising to the top. That will keep people pretty happy.

Most likely, someone will register to vote for underground diversity and then vanish.

A lurker's vote is still a vote. Toady also stated early in the first Top10 that he was skeptical about accounts made to cast a single vote.

Totally, but I was more referring to people who come and go and forget about the voting system.  Then their votes will forever be logged on UD or whatever, even after we have satisfied the original reason they voted.

[SirPenguin]

Whoa. Very cool.