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[Draco18s]

Then those suggestions are just eating up space and it makes it harder for Toady to know what we would want instead of those.

No, not really.  The goal is to clear them of votes (dropping them to the bottom of the list) and discouraging people from voting on them.

And just taking from a little lower on the list isn't going to work; maybe players would vote for something low on the list right now but it would go up high if they had a free vote.

Wait, what?  That makes no sense.

[RCIX]

And just taking from a little lower on the list isn't going to work; maybe players would vote for something low on the list right now but it would go up high if they had a free vote.

Wait, what?  That makes no sense.

Ok, think about this:

You have 2 suggestions, A and B. They each have 500 votes and occupy the 3rd and 4th slots on the list. There are also a few other options, C/D/E/F, which a lot of people like but few vote on due to other more interesting at the time suggestions. Now, one of two things can happen:
 * A and B are worked on, but since not everything from them are implemented, they still retain a lot of votes, and now the list is in a cluttered state (people are wasting votes on something that won't get worked on for a long while instead of a suggestion that has potential)
 * A and B are split into their components along with people getting more votes, which means that more votes will be freed up for C, D, E, and F to rise to be suggestions that will be implemented soon.

[Draco18s]

(people are wasting votes on something that won't get worked on for a long while instead of a suggestion that has potential)

You keep missing the "completed items, even ones that could have more, get their votes cleared, get marked as '[COMPLETED] Please put your votes somewhere else, as putting them here they will be considered wasted'" bit.

Emphasis on "considered wasted."

[Silverionmox]

With small suggestion, the only real effect is that people vote for things in the first part of the list and don't bother reading more.

The real effect is that small suggestions disappear when completed or rejected, and they do so fast, keeping the list in flux and bringing newer suggestions to the top.

Besides, people do find small suggestions to vote on: I've kept track of a few suggestions and I've seen them climb slowly, vote by  vote from zero to nearing the top 20. Even as we speak there are small, new items being added and voted on. While the big ones clutter the top of the list for years.

Someone argued for opening the list to more players. Enforcing small suggestions only would have the exact opposite effect - making the eternal voting more elitist.

Does not happen, people find the small ones. Especially when the big ones aren't there to suck up all votes forever.

And that's not to mention how would you handle it technically? Any idea for a real implementation of suggestion limits? Who would judge what is small and what is large? How would you set the rules? Where would the dividing line between small and large be? Even if you managed to answer all of this, you'd find out everyone feels it differently and that people keep posting what you consider as a "large" suggestion. Who would moderate it then? Toady wouldn't.

Just have another list with the big themes/arcs. (Items only added by mods, limited number of items). People who want to urge Toady to work on a big theme can do so there. The ESV we have now can stay as it is with a big note that collections will be ignored and you can vote for that in the other list.

The two would stay because people who voted for them have already stopped caring and don't bother to come back and relocate their votes   Really, the list needs periodical resets even if it is just for deleting "dead" votes. I personally am for periodical wiping of the suggestions too, to delete "dead" or "abandoned" suggestions.

Not all people have always enough time to check the ESV... Let votes be wiped when the suggestions are implemented, that'll keep the list up-to-date. Temporarily absent players are players too.

[Pilsu]

We're not voting for what we want in, we're voting for what we want worked on. If anything, specific things don't belong in the list as they actively try to control Toady's creative work.

[Draco18s]

We're not voting for what we want in, we're voting for what we want worked on. If anything, specific things don't belong in the list as they actively try to control Toady's creative work.

Again, someone hits the nail on the head.

The ESV should be closer to Power Goals than specific Requests.  Let Toady decide the best way to make farming more Fun.  Let Toady decide how to make the underground interesting (and he did, and in ways that no one even thought of).

[Silverionmox]

He'll still do that (for example, solving the entrance dance and a few other entries by implementing burrows). The advantage is that these suggestions can unceremoniously be ditched and make place for new ones in the list, or let the others ones rise.

[Draco18s]

He'll still do that (for example, solving the entrance dance and a few other entries by implementing burrows). The advantage is that these suggestions can unceremoniously be ditched and make place for new ones in the list, or let the others ones rise.

So...you're suggesting that completed suggestions be removed?  How about they will be when either the creator or Toady gets around to doing it.

Like.  Gasp.  No one thought of THAT before.

The problem is letting people know that the list had stuff removed and people need to make sure that all of their votes are still being used.

[Silverionmox]

Removing suggestions that are done is indeed the intention. Because suggestion collections will never be done, they'll never be removed.

If the list is dynamic, i.e. stuff changes place and/or is removed more often, people will check it more often and they'll see whether their votes are being used or not.

[Draco18s]

Removing suggestions that are done is indeed the intention. Because suggestion collections will never be done, they'll never be removed.

I've already addressed this point (at least) twice.

[Silverionmox]

Removing suggestions that are done is indeed the intention. Because suggestion collections will never be done, they'll never be removed.

I've already addressed this point (at least) twice.

Not to my satisfaction apparently. Let's leave it at that.

[Draco18s]

Not to my satisfaction apparently. Let's leave it at that.

What part of "removed, have their votes cleared, and re-added as a placeholder" doesn't count as "sufficiently removed from the list"?

At some point people will consider the suggestion done.  The reasons why "under/aboveground diversity" keep coming up is because DF contains all of like 100 different animals (30 of which are monkeys and the remainder are fish).

[azmodean]

At some point people will consider the suggestion done.  The reasons why "under/aboveground diversity" keep coming up is because DF contains all of like 100 different animals (30 of which are monkeys and the remainder are fish).

Don't forget the elephants

My first two embarks had herds of elephants, I was terrified as I had just read the boatmurdered saga.  I was rather disappointed at their lack of killing all of my dwarves, although I did have one bit of FUN, when I captured one in a cage, and then set it to be slaughtered, resulting in my animal handler being thrown across a room and exploding against a wall.

[Draco18s]

At some point people will consider the suggestion done.  The reasons why "under/aboveground diversity" keep coming up is because DF contains all of like 100 different animals (30 of which are monkeys and the remainder are fish).

Don't forget the elephants

Oh yes.  Skelephants and skeagles.  And skarp, too.

[mnjiman]

end game content added. 

ty.