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[Toady One]

It looks like the transfer from the old suggestions polling topics has pretty much occurred, and it looks like this is mostly working out, so I'm going to unsticky those topics.  Let me know if there's a problem with this.

They are here and here if you wanted to look at the discussions and so on.

Update:  Another version up -- your vote will be highlighted, guests can't view the page (zagibu raises bot issues) but ELs still can view, and the numeric vote tallies should be correct.

[Draco18s]

Totally, but I was more referring to people who come and go and forget about the voting system.  Then their votes will forever be logged on UD or whatever, even after we have satisfied the original reason they voted.

So when Toady says "I'm done with UD" and the vote option is removed...

Oh wait, those votes are gone.  Even if UD gets re-added, it won't come with those 60 votes.

[Christes]

Totally, but I was more referring to people who come and go and forget about the voting system.  Then their votes will forever be logged on UD or whatever, even after we have satisfied the original reason they voted.

So when Toady says "I'm done with UD" and the vote option is removed...

But like toady said, vague things like UD will never be finished.

Uh where's the new vote?  I don't see it.

[Impaler[WrG]]

The page now highlights my name under the 3 things I voted for, a nice improvement, keep up the good work.

But like toady said, vague things like UD will never be finished.

I we can 'declare' it done at some point and wipe the votes, then if people demand yet more of the same we re-make and people must yet again vote for it as they are essentially asking for a different thing (level 2) and its appropriate for that to be voted on as a new item.

By nature the suggestions are a bit nebulous, if they weren't we wouldn't need to link to discussion threads.  If something like UD gets some love in the next release Toady can declare it done though in all likely hood only a small number of the many ideas from that thread will have been implemented, we can simply edit the thread checking off the 'done' stuff and resubmit it as a suggestion.

[Othob Rithol]

Draco18s is sort of quoting me. The full quote (this is I think the third or fourth time I have written it) is:

And when you say "Okay, I'm done with UD for the time being." I'll yank down the poll entry, let the thread simmer in the forums for a while, and reintroduce it as UD Pt. II when it has some actually new content.

Key there is "for the time being", as in when he removes it from the dev_notes or tells me to remove it from the poll.

And like Impaler so rudely  wrote while I was making this post: The community can always strike it down.

[Aquillion]

But like toady said, vague things like UD will never be finished.

I think that whenever a version is released that substantially addresses the point of a particular vote-item, that item should be wiped clean.  Yes, it'll be a pain and it might not recollect all the votes it had before, but consider:

If Toady already addressed it once, he knows there's heavy demand for it.  Wiping it and having it shoot right back up to the top tells him more than just leaving all those old votes -- it tells him there's still demand for it.  Leaving it at the top doesn't tell him anything.

It's not a popularity contest, so we shouldn't worry about being "fair."  The point is to provide information to Toady; I think wiping votes under circumstances that radically change their underlying assumptions (like, say, having massively more underground diversity added) tells Toady more in the long run than maintaining the totals as eternal monuments or whatever.

Also, I'm not sure allowing people to edit their suggestions after other people have voted for them is a good idea.  I mean, I'm not seriously implying that anyone would suggest something popular, then suddenly edit it into "ADD GRAPHICAL 3D DORF PORN", but it still seems strange.

[Toady One]

Also, I'm not sure allowing people to edit their suggestions after other people have voted for them is a good idea.  I mean, I'm not seriously implying that anyone would suggest something popular, then suddenly edit it into "ADD GRAPHICAL 3D DORF PORN", but it still seems strange.

Yeah, I dunno.  If a discussion thread is later created for a suggestion, say, and then linked in, I think it's very good to be able to do that without wiping the votes.  On the other hand, if there's some sort of actual change to the suggestion, it should probably be wiped, and editing can only occur if the original suggestion maker is active.  I'd just as soon see how it goes.  Votes aren't permanent and the results aren't locking anything in, so there's not a lot of real harm that can be done as we sort this out.

[Othob Rithol]

I think that whenever a version is released that substantially addresses the point of a particular vote-item, that item should be wiped clean.  Yes, it'll be a pain and it might not recollect all the votes it had before, but consider:

If Toady already addressed it once, he knows there's heavy demand for it.  Wiping it and having it shoot right back up to the top tells him more than just leaving all those old votes -- it tells him there's still demand for it.  Leaving it at the top doesn't tell him anything.

It's not a popularity contest, so we shouldn't worry about being "fair."  The point is to provide information to Toady; I think wiping votes under circumstances that radically change their underlying assumptions (like, say, having massively more underground diversity added) tells Toady more in the long run than maintaining the totals as eternal monuments or whatever.

I find myself in complete agreement, especially the parts I highlighted.

Maybe it is just being used as an example a lot, but I am getting the vibe that people want the UD entry removed now. I assume that is on the basis of its origins in zagibu's Top 10 list (which was completed), and its references in the dev notes. I really don't think that is in the spirit of what this system is for, but I'll do it if enough people ask.

I just want to point out the danger of such precedent: removing a popular suggestion that has not yet been implemented.

If you don't like how affects the apparent pecking order, just pretend it is not there. UD losing 70 votes (some of which are probably register-postx8-vote), does not mean that your favorite topic is going to gain any.

And if you don't like vague suggestions that have no absolute end point, we need to remove the following:
Farming Improvements, Improve Mechanics, More Detailed Religion, Stats Improvements, Improved Resource Management, Full Gfx Support, Improved Site Finder, Improve the Morale System, Stockpile Improvements, Improved Trading Interface, and Interface Improvements.

[Shades]

Maybe we should have two vote counters, one for suggestions that are a fixed came change (Designate Safe Area for example) and one for on-going improvement 'areas'.

That way people can vote for both suggested new features and which area(s) they would like to see changes in at the present time.

[MaxVance]

If a particular suggestion gets removed from the list, will you get your vote back if that was one for which you voted? If so, perhaps it would be useful to have a counter of how many votes you have remaining.

[Hyndis]

Omg, an artifact script! It menaces with spikes of win and pwn. 


Awesome work, and an amazing tool. I'm sure Toady won't be slavishly following the voting for suggestions, but it is a great way to gauge the interest in the community. Wiping votes from time to time would also help hugely in keeping the list fresh. If the votes are left there forever, you could get someone who posts a vote for something, loses interest in the game, but a year later his vote is still cast for something. Whereas with wiping votes on, say, new versions, dev milestones, on season change, or whatever, and the same things attract the votes, then community interest in that particular topic is both current and ongoing.

That said...engraving constructed walls and floors would be awesome, after all, we can already carve fortifications into constructed walls. 

[chris_acheson]

To avoid vote account spamming, you need to have posted enough to exit Escaped Lunatic status (8 posts).  I'm not sure if I'll stick with that or not, but it's the way things currently work.  I know some people will probably be more interested in voting than chatting on the forums, but safeguards are also likely needed to avoid corrupting the process.

Aw, I'm a lurker.  Oh well, here's comment #6...

[popotam]

I'm a lurker as well (and I play DF since the first public release)

If it wasn't for the Ethernal Suggestion thingy, I wouldn't ever register - I'm not much into internetz fora.

[Dakej]

This post will allow me to cast my vote and return to being a lurker. I love being able to interact with developers.

edit:
What if you're not allowed to edit the title of a suggestion, just the description? That would allow people to add in details without changing the nature of the suggestion.

[Draco18s]

UD losing 70 votes (some of which are probably register-postx8-vote), does not mean that your favorite topic is going to gain any.

Two things:
I checked out 27 of the voters on UD (the entire bottom line/most recent votes plus some at random) and only found 3 with 8 posts, 2 with 11, and about 4 more with <50.  I don't think it's a serious issue.

And if it is, when the category goes *pop* due to completeness, the 50 or so actually active users will move their votes (and if all of them are legit, then all of them move their votes).