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Author Topic: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?  (Read 2195 times)

WCG

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What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« on: September 13, 2008, 10:28:57 am »

I just tiptoed into Adventure Mode to see what it was like (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=24726.0), and I got to wondering what others wanted in this kind of game. I don't know what Toady has planned, but this is what is most important to me:

1) Role-playing. I want a character I care about (at least as much as I care about some of my dwarves in Fortress Mode). I want a person, not just an icon. I want to gradually develop my character from a loincloth-wearing peasant with a dull knife to a well-equipped champion (starting out with full iron armor doesn't seem like much fun). And I want experiences which will test him and develop him (develop his character, not just his skills).

2) Exploration. I want a reason to explore the world, not just to kill things. I want to find the amazing, the beautiful, the bizarre, and the heart-breaking. I want incredible vistas, scary dungeons (moody environments of all types), as well as powerful stories of the other inhabitants of the world. I want to wander through the world and wonder at the things I find. And, of course, I want to find treasure - not Monty Hall quantities of loot, necessarily, but things that are valuable to me at the time.

3) Choices. I want REAL choices. I want advantages and disadvantages for everything, so that no choice is necessarily obvious. There should be a trade-off in everything. Equipping my character should be a matter of strategy. There should be a real question about whether plate mail is "better" than chain or even leather (depending on my character, my weapons, and my tactics). I want to slowly improve my character (the journey is FAR more fun than the end result), but I don't want the direction of improvement to be too obvious, and certainly not the same for every character.

4) Ethics. I want ethical choices, too. There should be advantages and disadvantages to each, but more importantly, it should MATTER which I choose. There must be consequences for our actions. At the very least, they should change how the rest of the world views our character, but even better, they should have an effect ON our character. Not "alignment" necessarily (Toady has wisely avoided "hit points," so I'm sure he can come up with something better here, too), but some significant effect, especially with repeated behavior. What we do should affect who we are,... and who we are should matter!

5) Logic. Things should make sense. This is one way in which Fortress Mode really, really shines (the other being that the dwarves are real characters, not just statistics). And I love the fact that Toady has eschewed magic in DF.  Magic is just a way to do things which make no sense. I want things to make sense, even in a fantasy game. Given what I've found in Fortress Mode, I'm sure Toady will have no trouble with logic in Adventure Mode, but I wanted to mention it, because it IS important to me.

6) Sound effects. Much - MUCH - less important than the above, but I still enjoy sound effects in a game (more than fancy graphics, I think). I always turn off the music in games, so I don't even know if there are any sound effects in Dwarf Fortress (I'd like to turn the music off, but leave sound effects on, if I could). But sound effects are not just useful for immersing a player into a game environment. They can also be important for gameplay. If there's a lion in the vicinity, I'd like to hear it before I see it. That seems more realistic, and it would increase the tension in the game, too.

OK, sorry this is so long. But I'd be interested in hearing what others value most in an RPG/Adventure game. What would you like to see in DF Adventure Mode, eventually?

Bill
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Kidiri

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2008, 04:29:39 pm »

I'd like to start with saying that DF, as it's name implies, is mostly about Fortress mode. Adventure mode is a nice asset, but it isn't the most important thing. It's nice for seeing player made fortresses in a different way.

Now, for your first point, there's the "Play now!"-function. You start out with no skills, no clothing, no food, nothing. You'll have to wrestle groundhogs to gain skills. Wealth can be found near caves with semimegabeasts to be killed etc.

As for the exploration, you can build fortresses, all differently and in varying degrees of difficulty. If you find it a bit easy, since you'll know what does what, you could use other people's forts.

The choices is a bit more difficult, but you could begin with leather armour to start, in order to not completely cripple you. Or have self invented limitations, such as that your character can't wear than this much worth of equipment so you'll have to choose between a very good cuirass, but no shield, or normal armour and shield...

Your ethics point is a bit hard to implement yourself, since you suggest it would alter the preferences and such of your character, so I have no suggestions on this. Nor do I have one on the logics thing. I don't quite understand what you're saying.

The music in DF is repetitive and a bit boring, and I have it turned off, but I'm quite sure there are no sound effects in AM. The whole 'hear before I see'-thing is a bit unnecessary with the ambushes. You'll know you'll get attacked when you suddenly jump out of the travel screen. But I guess it could be helpful. I've had a couple of times where I wanted to murder the beats, and it didn't show up.
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cowofdoom78963

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2008, 07:10:27 pm »

I would like to see all the availiable abilitys a dwarf can do in fortress mode like cooking, butchering, soap making, ect. to be able to be done in adventure mode(a workshop should be only needed for a few like metal crafting). Personaly I always thought of a dwarf fortress as more then just a outpost for selling goods and a place to defend against goblins and dragons. The same should be for adventure mode.

Also I would like quests for more things then just killing a mega beast, like a quest to bring someone some food, repair someones things, deliver something, ect. and that each completed quest was rewarded with at least coins.

Of course those things probably wont happen, well at least not in a VERY VERY long time, they would be nice though and probably make adventure mode seem more "complete"

also
Quote
1) Role-playing. I want a character I care about (at least as much as I care about some of my dwarves in Fortress Mode). I want a person, not just an icon. I want to gradually develop my character from a loincloth-wearing peasant with a dull knife to a well-equipped champion (starting out with full iron armor doesn't seem like much fun). And I want experiences which will test him and develop him (develop his character, not just his skills).
Yeah that seems pretty simple, I personaly would just like my character to have preferences and a personality like the dwarves in fortress mode. Like detesting rats, Being a good leader, and stuff like that.

Well anyway my whole post in a nutshell:
Adventure characters and quests should not be entirely combat oriented.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 07:14:37 pm by cowofdoom78963 »
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Roundabout Lout

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2008, 10:29:48 pm »

I agree fully. I am a fan of adventure mode, and would like to see something as simple as adventurers having a tie to the world they exist in, meaning they don't appear out of thin air. It would be nice if our adventurer existed persistently within the world, having a pre-existing family.

 I know this and most of what's discussed here is already in dev_now, but the first feature adventure mode will get next will be the ability to process corpses for meat, and then more skill preliminaries. This includes the ability to create a hideout for the character by mining or building from raw materials.

 It looks to be a few months off before this will be started, as Toady seems to be focusing on bugfixes and military structure, but this means something big for AM. A current objective as he listed yesterday is to make civs continue wars after world gen. Maybe this means we can participate in battles? Only time will tell now.
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Glacies

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2008, 10:34:32 am »

Crotch shots and buffout.

Roundabout Lout

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2008, 10:16:28 pm »

Crotch shots and buffout.
Well the count of people truly serious about Adventure mode currently counts 3.
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Glacies

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 12:01:26 pm »

Crotch shots and buffout.
Well the count of people truly serious about Adventure mode currently counts 3.

Fine. No buffout, just crotch shots.

Roundabout Lout

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2008, 04:34:32 pm »

Ha well theres actually a mod i've played with the body part Genitals. Pages in the legends screen listed Urist McDwarf slashed off Kutsmob *Nutsfliers* genitals. (real last name and very appropriate for the occasion)
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EuchreJack

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2008, 12:31:33 am »

I remember Toady stating that he was planning to beef up Adventure mode, adding several skills from dwarf mode and making "Play Now!" more interesting and RPGish.

However, you need to remember the statement from the Adventure mode help file, which is that you're playing a civilization, and not an individual.  I sometimes try to do things that make sense from a civilization standpoint as opposed to an individual standpoint.  Build up the skills of your character, and kill the megabeast that has been terrorizing your hometown.  Try to wipe out the closest goblin settlement (not as vital in version 0.28.181.40d, as goblins will greet you and act all nice).

There's a new version coming out soon that may improve on Adventure mode a lot.

Poltifar

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2008, 10:05:28 am »

I too am waiting for more Fortress-mode-like skills to be added to Adventure mode, to be able to do non-combat related things. I could build a house, go gather food from nearby plants, chop down trees and make charcoal to sell to the nearby village... what can be done is only limited by imagination.

On another note, I'd like to point out that there are plans to add magic at some point in the future. Just wanted to mention that so that the thread opener knew what was comming...
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WCG

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2008, 09:15:57 pm »

On another note, I'd like to point out that there are plans to add magic at some point in the future. Just wanted to mention that so that the thread opener knew what was comming...

Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but I suppose magic is expected in a fantasy game, huh? In fact, it's pretty much a cliché. Of course, I'm not pleased at all the magical thinking in real life, so that might have something to do with my preference for a magic-free Dwarf Fortress.

Bill
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Roundabout Lout

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2008, 10:16:35 pm »

Considering we're already able to edit so much in the raws, I'm sure that we'll have a choice whether or not to use magic. I'm not deciding until I see how it works. No doubt though that it will not be cliche, nothing about DF is, or ever will be.

Can anyone tell from the devlog if the next release might have squad names for adventurer groups? That'd be a nice addition of flavor.
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i2amroy

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2008, 12:50:49 am »

Can anyone tell from the devlog if the next release might have squad names for adventurer groups? That'd be a nice addition of flavor.
It doesn't look like it will be in the next release, but it says on the dev next page that it is planned for adventurer groups to work as an entity, and entities have names, so they should.
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HungryHobo

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2008, 07:00:31 am »

The game has been so totally different from anything else I've ever played up till now that I can't see magic being the "normal" kind of cliched magic used in other games.
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Roundabout Lout

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Re: What do you want in an RPG/Adventure game?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2008, 05:59:30 pm »

Toady had said somewhere that a possibility for early magic is to use someone's blood (since it's tracked now) in creepy voodoo spells. Interesting so far.
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