I'm bringing this thread back to life is both the "Search for an existing thread." rule and because in the February report
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148180.0 toady said "Musical instruments and procedurally-generated art forms are next. Then tabletop games for your dwarfs to play! Then artifacts and
magic!"
The magic system I'm about to suggest is one I think it would work well in dwarf fortress, now before you say that "high magic" and "industrialized magic" is not in the spirit of DF allow me to quote from Dwarf Fortress Talk #7.2,
http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_7_transcript_2.html at the bottom of toady's 2nd paragraph "I certainly don’t have any problem if you can
amp up your init options or your world parameter options more likely to be like ‘yeah my dwarfs can float, and fly on carpets, and make big guns that shoot fire guns ..." to me this mean being able to make both low and high fantasy worlds.
I also think the current versions method of necromancers, werebeasts and vampires implementation counts as at lest mid-level magic, so having more control over how much magic is in your world, from low to high is the natural progression I think, in the end though it is just a suggestion about a potential magic system and how it could be implemented.
Now lets talk about the potential world gen settings for low to high magic much like the minerals or beasts settings that already exist, it could look something like this.
"very-low magic" "low magic" "mid magic" "high magic" "Very-high magic"
This world gen settings could then affect all aspects of the magic system enabling the creation of both low and high fantasy worlds. The first system I'll address is the "Mana" system. I think having magic cause fatigue based on a percentile of the casters total stamina/fatigue is the most reliable why to integrate magic into the existing system while maintaining a sense of balance, as an example I'll use a generic "fireball" and "heal light wounds" spells.
xxx
fireball - 1 projectile, explodes on impact into xox shaped fire "breath"
xxx
Heal light wounds - heal cuts, bruising of 1 character (does not heal broken bones/fractures, nerve, muscle or organ damage)
very-low magic - 4x fatigue cost e.g. 80% cost for a fireball and 160% for heal light wounds (a wizard can cast 1 fireball and can not cast heal light wounds)
low magic - 2x fatigue cost e.g. 40% cost for a fireball and 80% for heal light wounds (a wizard can cast 2 fireballs or can cast heal light wounds once)
mid magic - normal cost e.g 20% cost for fireball and 40% for heal light wounds (a wizard can cast 5 fireballs or can cast heal light wounds twice)
high magic - -50% fatigue cost e.g. 10% cost for a fireball and 20% for heal light wounds (a wizard can cast 10 fireballs or can cast heal light wounds five times)
very-high magic - -75% fatigue cost e.g. 5% cost for a fireball and 10% for heal light wounds (a wizard can cast 20 fireballs or can cast heal light wounds ten times)
advance gen could use, min value 0.01 and max value 10.0 for fatigue, here example's of what the "standard" settings would look like in advance gen.
fatigue - 4.0 for very-low
fatigue - 2.0 for low
fatigue - 1.0 for med
fatigue - 0.5 for high
fatigue - 0.25 for very-High
with casting time lets say it takes 50 ticks to fire a crossbow (I don't know actual amount ticks) and 200 to cast a fireball if both characters are "novice" skill level then in general ranged
combat the crossbow wins, because not only can it be fired 4 times faster but the wizard can only cast 5 fireballs before he passes out from exhaustion, the world gen setting could also affect this to.
v-low magic - 50 ticks for crossbow and 800 ticks for fireball 16 bolts = 1 fireball
low magic - 50 ticks for crossbow and 400 ticks for fireball 8 bolts = 1 fireball
mid magic - 50 ticks for crossbow and 200 ticks for fireball 4 bolts = 1 fireball
high magic - 50 ticks for crossbow and 100 ticks for fireball 2 bolts = 1 fireball
v-high magic - 50 ticks for crossbow and 50 ticks for fireball 1 bolt = 1 fireball
for advance gen use the same basic idea as the fatigue, a minimum value from 0.01 to a maximum value 10.0
Then there's spell failure and miscasts now for the sake of ease lets say spell failure means the spell simply does not work or activate and miscast means it explodes in your face (fireball) or makes the damage worse/melts you (healing), so lets say that a novice wizard has 50% chance failure per spell and that each skill level reduces that chance by 3% then even a grand master wizard still has a 8% chance of failure, now add in miscasts of 15% for a novice that is reduced by 1% each skill level then a grand master still has a 1% chance of miscast, this too could be affected by world gen settings.
novice grand master
v-low magic - 70% failure - 0% miscast 28% failure - 0% miscast
low magic - 60% failure - 5% miscast 18% failure - 0% miscast
mid magic - 50% failure - 15% miscast 8% failure - 1% miscast
high magic - 40% failure - 25% miscast 0% failure - 11% miscast
v-high magic - 30% failure - 35% miscast 0% failure - 21% miscast
advance world gen could use separate values of 0-100 for spell failure, failure reduction, miscast and miscast reduction which gives the player control.
the Idea behind failure going up and miscast going down in low magic and the reverse for high magic is that in a low magic setting it takes all your concentration and effort to cast just 1 fireball, so if you mess up the spell its more likely it simply fissiles out doing nothing where as in high magic you can cast fireballs like its new years eve as such there just more magic around but if you mess up a spell it can still go off, just not like you planned. That this can act as a balance for high fantasy also helps.
I think you can see that this would enables both low magic settings where magic is a mysterious thing all the way up to high magic settings where spells can be spammed.
I'll try and handle the magic and dwarf compatibility issue next, in some fantasy setting dwarfs are not mages or wizards because of their culture bias against it while in others its because of nature (they just can't), I'll personally focus on culture as I'm not overly fond of the other, this is where the personality belief system come into play, all character have a beliefs about aspects of their world examples being Law, Nature, Tradition ect, this idea simply adds magic to the list, so here is a quick example of possible magic beliefs
+41 to +50 "is completely obsessed with magic"
+26 to +40 "sees magic as one the finer things in life"
+11 to +25 "finds magic fascinating"
-10 to +10 "has no strong feelings about magic"
-11 to -25 "finds magic disturbing"
-26 to -40 "thinks magic is dangerous and those whom use it as inherently untrustworthy"
-41 to -50 "hate's magic and all who use it with a passion"
I think that the average dwarf and by extension dwarf culture would be "finds magic disturbing" as it fits with general perception of what dwarfs think about magic without causing wars against other civs just because of magic use, so a basic civ entity version of this might look like this
Dwarfs - "dwarf culture finds magic disturbing"
Elves - "elf culture sees magic as one the finer things in life"
Humans - "Human culture has no strong feelings about magic"
Goblins - "Goblin culture finds magic fascinating"
I think that to apply this any magic you need to base it around a set of skills that work together to make spells "acquired ability" how else do you tell the difference between a novice necromancer who has just learned the secrets of life and death from a grand master who has century's of experience?
the examples magic skills I'll use are the traditional magic elements plus four additional ones inspired by the dominions games and almost all of them can be linked to a DF Deity sphere or even multiple sphere's e.g Mist - air/water, magma - fire/earth or a sphere may fall under two different elements e.g. murder - death and blood and if you don't mind making more abstract connections then even spheres like happiness (nature/astral/air) or jealousy (nature/astral/fire) can be aligned to a magic element..
here are some examples
Fire - Pyromancy - (spheres) light - magma - Sun - volcano's
Earth - Geomancy - (spheres) minerals - mountains - magma - metals
Air - Aeromancy - (spheres) storms - lightning - mist - sky
Water - Hydromancy - (spheres) oceans - rivers - rain - lakes
Astral - Celestial - (spheres) fate - luck - moon - stars
Death - Necromancy - (spheres) murder - suicide - dusk - silence
Nature - Druidic - (spheres) fertility - longevity - animals - balance
Blood - Demonic - (spheres) sacrifice - torture - revenge - nightmares
a lot of spheres fall under one or more of these magic type elements, these are just examples of possible magic types, Along side these magic "elements" are the spell types or magic "schools"
Conjuration - Summon elemental's earth/fire/air/water or Demons
Alteration - resist fire/haste/stone skin
Evocation - cone of cold/fireball/lightning bolt
Enchantment - creation of magic items/Lichdom
Thaumaturgy - curse/scrying/teleport
The magic skills work by necessitating multiple skills to cast even one spell and much like how the fighter and sword/hammer/spear skills or archer and crossbow/bow are simultaneous in training\use so should these magic skills, an example being fireball requiring level 3 Pyromancy and level 4 Evocation and with other spells requiring even more skills e.g. heal light wounds (cuts, bruising) level 2 astral, level 3 nature and level 5 evocation. also if you add the skills I talked about to the preference's system you could get.
Dwarfs - "in general finds magic disturbing", "thinks nature magic is dangerous and those whom use it as inherently untrustworthy" (healing spells/plant growth control) "finds fire/earth magic fascinating" (magma bolt spell anyone?)
Elves - "is completely obsessed with nature magic" (helps speed and control the growth of trees) "sees water magic as one the finer things in life" (it opposes fire) "thinks fire magic is dangerous and those whom use it as inherently untrustworthy" (it can burn down trees)
Humans - "have no strong feelings about any magic types"
Goblins - "is completely obsessed with blood magic" (summoning demons though sacrifices, a reason for kidnappings?) and cross-breeding experiments (weaker titan/forgotten beast type monstrosity's to bring in sieges)
There are also four main types of spells in two "groups", independent/communal and immediate/ritual.
Independent spells are cast by a single wizard working alone, an example being the fireball from earlier as even on v-low it can be cast by one wizard
communal spell are spells too costly/powerful for just one wizard to cast so as an example take the heal light wounds spell from v-low and it costs 160% fatigue which no one wizard can pay, but if two work together they can each pay half.
immediate spells are the type of spells that are cast as might be expected in combat e.g. fireball or haste, as they are cast immediately.
ritual spells are more powerful but take time (weeks/months) and resources (regents/gems/sacrifices) an example being lichdom/immortality for necromancers giving them a goal and making them more active in the world, or regeneration of lost limbs/youth for Druid's may explains why elves have them as leaders, could even have goblins summoning demons from hell, gives them a reason for all the kidnapping.
The attributes that I think these magic skills should use are.
Endurance - used for fatigue but trains very slowly
Analytical ability - understanding spells
focus - to hit targets at range
Willpower - to "channel" magic
patience - ritual spells
memory - remember all spell components e.g. gestures and invocations
linguistic ability - correct pronunciation of spell invocations and the reading of spell books
Kinaesthetic sense - correct gestures
all of this is just an example of how magic could be implemented for both low and high magic, so any thoughts, ideas or improvements?
Author
Topic: Creating a magic system? (Read 45642 times)