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[Granite26]

I'd say:
- magical properties of materials i.e. alternative laws of physics (potions, )
- magical properties of specific creatures i.e. alternative laws of genetics (fire imps can live in magma, psionics)
- magical properties of specific objects, arising from their shape (pentagrams, hexagrams)
- magicial arising from a sequence of actions (rituals)
- belief shapes reality (power of prayer, Discworld gods)
- words shape reality (runes, rabbi Löw's golem, toady programming DF)
- interference of magical beings in a nonmagical world (artifact magic, d&d divine magic, summoning demons)
- effects arising from the structure of the universe (eg. d&d worldview: summoning creatures from other planes)

Of course, several or all of these are typically mixed up in such a way that they're indistinguishable. A typical property of magic though, is that it has to be just right, or it won't work at all.

Those are all player side, not code side.  Every one of them could be modeled as above, it's just the source that changes.

[commondragon]

Dwarf fortress has the potential to become my dream game: Anything is possible to do, how you want it, when you want it, and how IT wants it, and when IT wants it too, with lots of random generation.

So people, just post ideas of ways magic can be implemented and how it would work in the raws, dont complain about high and low magic dammit!

[Silverionmox]

In that case there's just ritual magic to add, since it typically requires several steps and not necessarily the uninterrupted presence of one object or person. (eg. If three black birds sit on the throne while the king is absent, doom awaits the prince unless no dwarf in the kingdom wears green.)

[Tormy]

It sounds like we've got three broad stroke types of magic.

Magic based entirely upon the physical properties of items.

Magic based on giving critters special abilities they use at will

Magic used by intelligent creatures weaving the fabric of the universe (Runes, Artifact Magic, Power of Prayer, D&D style wizards, potions, psionics, whatever)

am I missing anything?

Yes, this is a pretty basic global magic system, what you've described. It works flawlessly in many games. 

*edit*

Since Artifact magic will be implemented first...:

ARTIFACT ARC: Special items made by the dwarves aren't very interesting right now, and there's not much for an adventurer to do with them. These objects should have magical powers and they should have a huge influence on the actions of entities that come into contact with them. Even if your adventurer can't make use of a particular artifact, you could arrange for buyers in the nobility, and use those opportunitites to get a home or good entity standing, for instance

..perhaps we should talk about this a bit. Ideas? What should be the process of creating magical artifacts?
Example: Legendary and moody weaponsmith should be able to create a magical sword, or something else should be needed in order to make one? Perhaps creating a magical sword should require the presence of a new noble who possesses magical powers?

[dizzyelk]

..perhaps we should talk about this a bit. Ideas? What should be the process of creating magical artifacts?
Example: Legendary and moody weaponsmith should be able to create a magical sword, or something else should be needed in order to make one? Perhaps creating a magical sword should require the presence of a new noble who possesses magical powers?

I would imagine all artifacts created by a possessed dwarf would be magical. And an artifact created by a fey mood should have a chance of being magical. But it should be changed so that secretive moods (which shouldn't produce magical artifacts) are the most common. At least this way there'd be a difference between them, and possessed moods wouldn't suck as much.

[Granite26]

In that case there's just ritual magic to add, since it typically requires several steps and not necessarily the uninterrupted presence of one object or person. (eg. If three black birds sit on the throne while the king is absent, doom awaits the prince unless no dwarf in the kingdom wears green.)

I guess the ritual magic would require rewording of the intelligence magic, possibly to include non-physical reagents being created with a high rate of 'rot'.

I'm actually clueless about the omens.  I like the idea, but I have no idea how to code it in raws...

[Jude]

I like the low-magic world of DF right now. Really there's no magic, just creatures that we usually consider "magical." But they don't really appear to do anything magical.

Whatever Toady decides to do will be good, I'm sure. But I'm liking the idea of wizards and magic being a rare thing - a wizard as a noble is a great idea, since he'd actually be useful.

Well there is a lot of magic in Dwarf Fortress right now... If Zombies, Skeletons, and Dragons have something to say about it. (Let us not forget about Ironmen, Bronze collosus, and Armor Peircing hallow point Rifles Crossbows)

There's not really anything magical about those creatures...sure, how else would undead exist, but once you assume the fact that they exist and are a normal occurrence, that really stops being magical. Dragons and everything else could just be normal life forms like anything else.

It's really semantics. But I think of magic as more like casting spells - causes producing effects that don't logically follow in any way.

[Silverionmox]

In that case there's just ritual magic to add, since it typically requires several steps and not necessarily the uninterrupted presence of one object or person. (eg. If three black birds sit on the throne while the king is absent, doom awaits the prince unless no dwarf in the kingdom wears green.)

I guess the ritual magic would require rewording of the intelligence magic, possibly to include non-physical reagents being created with a high rate of 'rot'.

I'm actually clueless about the omens.  I like the idea, but I have no idea how to code it in raws...

There would be several components, possibly linked by AND, OR, IF...THEN statements. Components could be time, location, objects, creatures, professions, materials,.. anything else that's in the raws, actually, adding tides and celestial objects for flavour. Since the game has to check whether conditions are fulfilled, it's probably best to require a limited window of time in which each ritual/conditions-for-curses/omen can trigger.

The same code could be used for custom events, if Toady chooses to allow these and not rely on procedural generation only.

[TettyNullus]

Reading the post above this one I just remembered that in some interpretations magic burns calories. So the more and increasingly powerful magic is used the hungrier (or faint) the user becomes (see f.i. L.E. Modesitt Jr.'s Recluse books, or the "Slayers" animation - Lina Inverse can really wolf it down!)

So if a magic user had an outstandingly ravenous appetite (s)he could really be the end of the castle by causing starvation or thirst, which would be very much in line with the DF style of posing challenges to the player! For further fun, let a mage issue demands on when he wants to eat or drink!

I actually love this idea! Would bring some purpose to all the food players can make, all magical works increases the appetite, and hunger's already built in. Bigger effect makes for more hunger, and some mighty effects can kill the caster outright if done in one shot  (Naturally, they'll have a chance of surviving.... if they just ate  ) And would balance any 'Magic crafters' nicely, they'd have to break more often to eat, drink and such, just to keep up their working. And actually gives backpacks and waterbags more purpose for non-soliders (Hopefully it'll be allowable to give non-soldiers them, and waterbag can take booze eventually ).

ed: Of course above's assuming magic that's driven by the person, not alchemy that uses chemical reactions and such that -appears- magical. And that skill only affects how -fast- they can cast, not how much it takes from them, so faster they goes, the more likely they might starve themselve before reaching the foodpile.

[Mikademus]

Since Artifact magic will be implemented first...:

ARTIFACT ARC: Special items made by the dwarves aren't very interesting right now, and there's not much for an adventurer to do with them. These objects should have magical powers and they should have a huge influence on the actions of entities that come into contact with them. Even if your adventurer can't make use of a particular artifact, you could arrange for buyers in the nobility, and use those opportunitites to get a home or good entity standing, for instance

..perhaps we should talk about this a bit. Ideas? What should be the process of creating magical artifacts?
Example: Legendary and moody weaponsmith should be able to create a magical sword, or something else should be needed in order to make one? Perhaps creating a magical sword should require the presence of a new noble who possesses magical powers?

Is the ARTEFACT ARC official or something you just suggested? Because to me it makes a MAGIC ARC either sort of a meta-arc containing other arcs, as

MAGIC ARC
  * ARTEFACT ARC
  * ALCHEMY ARC
  * SPELLCASTING ARC

or, the ARTEFACT ARC dependent on a previous implementation of the MAGIC ARC (that is, magic arc introduce the basic facilities that all magic will be implemented in terms of, so an artefact will be a magic effect imbued in an item that will be continuously active or triggered on use, and a spell is similarly a potential magic effect possessed by a "mage" that will be triggered when "invoked", etc).

Continuing your line of though, regarding who will have access to magic, we could tie in the discussion in the
Suggestion Failpile and Military dwarves getting strange moods threads (on the 6th page in both), where it is suggested that access to magic could come from a strange mood, and that if moods are (may be) specific to a particular profession, a second strange mood could be possible.

Thus, possible models are:
1) The output of a legendary dwarf could have magical properties or effects
2) A strange mood could result in an artefact with magical properties
3) A strange mood could result in a dwarf with magical powers (a "mage")
4) A mage can have strange moods resulting in artefacts, summonings, spells etc

Mode models are certainly possible, bring 'em on!

Reading the post above this one I just remembered that in some interpretations magic burns calories. So the more and increasingly powerful magic is used the hungrier (or faint) the user becomes (see f.i. L.E. Modesitt Jr.'s Recluse books, or the "Slayers" animation - Lina Inverse can really wolf it down!)

So if a magic user had an outstandingly ravenous appetite (s)he could really be the end of the castle by causing starvation or thirst, which would be very much in line with the DF style of posing challenges to the player! For further fun, let a mage issue demands on when he wants to eat or drink!

I actually love this idea! Would bring some purpose to all the food players can make, all magical works increases the appetite, and hunger's already built in. Bigger effect makes for more hunger, and some mighty effects can kill the caster outright if done in one shot  (Naturally, they'll have a chance of surviving.... if they just ate  ) And would balance any 'Magic crafters' nicely, they'd have to break more often to eat, drink and such, just to keep up their working. And actually gives backpacks and waterbags more purpose for non-soliders (Hopefully it'll be allowable to give non-soldiers them, and waterbag can take booze eventually ).

ed: Of course above's assuming magic that's driven by the person, not alchemy that uses chemical reactions and such that -appears- magical. And that skill only affects how -fast- they can cast, not how much it takes from them, so faster they goes, the more likely they might starve themselve before reaching the foodpile.

Exactly! It ties in with already existing mechanics in DF (food, hunger, brining rations), and allows magic to be powerful but at a price that may be both disastrous and hilarious! Very much in keeping with the Dwarf Fortress way.

[TettyNullus]

Actually, I just thought of a problem for the rare spellcasters that don't eats. Thermal overload  They casts too much, they burns up in the heat of casting process.
So instead of:

Urist Spellcaster cancels spellcasting: Death.
Urist Spellcaster have starved to death.

It could alternatively have the effect of...

Urist Spellcaster cancels spellcasting: Death.
Urist Spellcaster have burned to death.

The mechanisms would be close enough, burn up energy to cast. So the choice's starve or burn to death, no Globicide spells unless you're willing to use your mages like mini-nukes... That is, expendablly and with dangerous side effects

ed: Both of those mechanisms will make players focus on providing heavy cooling and large amount of easily accessible consumables if they want an army of spellcasters without them having to stop to cool or eat too often 

[Tormy]

Since Artifact magic will be implemented first...:

ARTIFACT ARC: Special items made by the dwarves aren't very interesting right now, and there's not much for an adventurer to do with them. These objects should have magical powers and they should have a huge influence on the actions of entities that come into contact with them. Even if your adventurer can't make use of a particular artifact, you could arrange for buyers in the nobility, and use those opportunitites to get a home or good entity standing, for instance

..perhaps we should talk about this a bit. Ideas? What should be the process of creating magical artifacts?
Example: Legendary and moody weaponsmith should be able to create a magical sword, or something else should be needed in order to make one? Perhaps creating a magical sword should require the presence of a new noble who possesses magical powers?

Is the ARTEFACT ARC official or something you just suggested? Because to me it makes a MAGIC ARC either sort of a meta-arc containing other arcs, as

MAGIC ARC
  * ARTEFACT ARC
  * ALCHEMY ARC
  * SPELLCASTING ARC

or, the ARTEFACT ARC dependent on a previous implementation of the MAGIC ARC (that is, magic arc introduce the basic facilities that all magic will be implemented in terms of, so an artefact will be a magic effect imbued in an item that will be continuously active or triggered on use, and a spell is similarly a potential magic effect possessed by a "mage" that will be triggered when "invoked", etc).

Nop it is "official", and it will be a part of the v1.0 development cycle [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_v1.html], while magic itself will be implemented after v1.0 [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_future.html].

..perhaps we should talk about this a bit. Ideas? What should be the process of creating magical artifacts?
Example: Legendary and moody weaponsmith should be able to create a magical sword, or something else should be needed in order to make one? Perhaps creating a magical sword should require the presence of a new noble who possesses magical powers?

I would imagine all artifacts created by a possessed dwarf would be magical. And an artifact created by a fey mood should have a chance of being magical. But it should be changed so that secretive moods (which shouldn't produce magical artifacts) are the most common. At least this way there'd be a difference between them, and possessed moods wouldn't suck as much.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you. Note: The magical power of the created artifact should be based on the skills of the creator. Only the most skilled and experienced dwarves should be able to create powerful magical artifacts.

[TrombonistAndrew]

Actually, I just thought of a problem for the rare spellcasters that don't eats. Thermal overload  They casts too much, they burns up in the heat of casting process.
So instead of:

Urist Spellcaster cancels spellcasting: Death.
Urist Spellcaster have starved to death.

It could alternatively have the effect of...

Urist Spellcaster cancels spellcasting: Death.
Urist Spellcaster have burned to death.

The mechanisms would be close enough, burn up energy to cast. So the choice's starve or burn to death, no Globicide spells unless you're willing to use your mages like mini-nukes... That is, expendablly and with dangerous side effects

ed: Both of those mechanisms will make players focus on providing heavy cooling and large amount of easily accessible consumables if they want an army of spellcasters without them having to stop to cool or eat too often 

If you really want to get crazy, you could inclue both: food/fatigue for generic spellcasting and igniting or freezing or whatever for possible side-effects of specific spells.

[Granite26]

That's kind of been my point all along, allow different methods of 'mana' generation.

Maybe vanilla doesn't need to use them all, but if you're touching it, keep it touched

[Granite26]

Sorry for the double post but I wanted to flesh this out a bit.


For giving magic to races you could give them the job associated with the type of magic.  Specifically give the dwarves the 'hunger_mage' job.  This will allow them to perform the generate_mana job.  Then they get the 'healing_magic' job that allows them to use that mana to do healing magic.

At that point, it's just a matter of fleshing out the generation methods and the casting methods.  (these would have to be relatively hard coded, although the costs and associations would be free.)

That is, healing magic would consist of a raw file full of hard coded spells, with costs associated with them.