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[Deathworks]

Hi!

First of all, I would like to point out that the game already has a subtle achievement system: Nobles.

Secondly, while I do not dislike the achievement system per se, I don't think you should get in-game goodies from it besides maybe a historical event for legends mode or engravers to commemorate. If it were other things like boni or special units (actually, nobles would qualify for that (^_^;; ), these boni either destroy game balance or the standard game has to be crippled by removing a basic aspect and making it a bonus (nobles avoid this issue currently by being seriously broken and more of a disadvantage).

Finally, I think that such an additional achievement system should be toggable, especially if it includes feats especially for newbies. While it can be exciting for a newbie to get gratulated for building their first major underground housing project, such announcements are likely to become a nuissance for experienced players.

Ah, and some of the things suggested again raise the question of how the game should recognize things (lava moats, for one).

Deathworks

[Mohreb el Yasim]

why not just make a thread to ressemble all kind of achievement then vote about them wich are cool and then make a list wich have been achived by how ... maybe more in general discussion (it migth include Adventurers achievement ...)

[Align]

Since DF is a singleplayer game, tutorials would do a better job.

[Granite26]

Some of the achievements have been pretty cool.  The online 'get 1000 kills using one weapon' ones, or Dead Rising's 'kill 14000 zombies' (where 14000 was the population of the town).  There's some good viral ones for the devs to track stuff (kill a developer or someone who's killed one).

I also don't hate the 'try to do something ridiculous' that adds emergent gameplay to the core game.

I DO hate any of the 'use this mechanic that the tutorial level tells you to use' or 'beat the first level' achievements.

Back on topic:

Achievements for players in this are silly.  Achievements (I.E. historical events) for characters and forts are awesome. 
    It adds a sense of attachment to a single world.
    It can still be used as a newb-aid.  (Track who did the first digging as an achievement.)
    It can be used for more interesting histories.  (When exploring later, the walls tell you when it was founded, but also when the first rooms were assigned, when the first tunnel was dug, etc. 

Long term, adding the much maligned all-gold challenge institutionalizes the core 'make your own goals' gameplay by adding a few suggestions.

Basically, IMHO, achievements represent a cheap and easy way for devs to maximize the play value of the mechanics they've developed for the core game.

[Tormy]

Gonna add this to the master list also. 

[Othob Rithol]

    It can be used for more interesting histories.  (When exploring later, the walls tell you when it was founded, but also when the first rooms were assigned, when the first tunnel was dug, etc. 

Okay, so there would be one decent use...

As always I'll revoke my criticism with the demand: Only if there is an init option to turn it off.

[Granite26]

meh, nobody disliked the mountain climbing stuff...

[Tormy]

    It can be used for more interesting histories.  (When exploring later, the walls tell you when it was founded, but also when the first rooms were assigned, when the first tunnel was dug, etc. 

Okay, so there would be one decent use...

As always I'll revoke my criticism with the demand: Only if there is an init option to turn it off.

Heh, deja vu. 
This is what I posted in the gunpowder topic.
Actually the more stuff we can control in the raws = the best. This is the way to keep all players happy. 
[..for example if Toady will implement something like gunpowder I would surely like to turn it off.]

[Dae]

Agreed with Neonivek and Othob Rithol : Achievements a-la 360 is (in general) plain evil. It forces you to stop playing the game it was supposed to be played so as to act in strange ways.

While some events should be tracked for history purposes (a construction worth a huge amount of ¤, breaking into the HFS, having your fortress last longer than any other before or kill more [CIV_MEMBER], ...) I don't want it to be things like "have 50 dwarfs gravely wounded at the same time". It would certainly be fun to see, but some would play a fortress with the exclusive goal of Achieving this.

Moreover, it could make people think that by fulfilling all achievements they would have finished DF. Honestly, finishing DF?


It could be nice as a sort of tutorial, being mentioned somewhere until you do it, but that should stand for basic things. Or as Neonivek said, building the highest construction in your world, but not some predefined number of stairs.

The problem is not with people killing an entire town with a sock (which is, insanely enough, absolutely right) but with goals being set. I don't think it fits the spirit of the game.
Having it as an init option would solve the problem I guess, but I can't understand why someone would choose to see something telling him how he has to have fun.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Yeah, I always assumed the real achievements in DF were finishing the goals you made for yourself - self achievements.

No need to turn DF into a multiplayer pissing contest that is 360 achievements - aka who could grind more.

[Draco18s]

It forces you to stop playing the game it was supposed to be played so as to act in strange ways.

Exactly!

Or worse yet (ah la XBox/TF2) forcing other players to stop playing the game and act in strange ways so YOU can get an achievement.

[Tormy]

Agreed with Neonivek and Othob Rithol : Achievements a-la 360 is (in general) plain evil. It forces you to stop playing the game it was supposed to be played so as to act in strange ways.

Wait what? You wouldnt be forced to complete any achievement goals. So what is this "it forces you" stuff? 

[moocowmoo]

Wait what? You wouldnt be forced to complete any achievement goals. So what is this "it forces you" stuff? 

It becomes a compulsion... when you see everyone else getting their shiny achievements you start to feel like "well I need them too!" I'd rather not see X-Box or TF2 like achievements in DF because it would take me out of the atmosphere and experience of the game, rather than  add to my enjoyment.

[Draco18s]

Agreed with Neonivek and Othob Rithol : Achievements a-la 360 is (in general) plain evil. It forces you to stop playing the game it was supposed to be played so as to act in strange ways.

Wait what? You wouldnt be forced to complete any achievement goals. So what is this "it forces you" stuff? 

I want the backburner: need 16 achievements...

Lets see...
Set a spy who's taunting on fire...don't see any spies...
Kill guys underwater with something other than the flamethrower...don't see anyone in the water...
Set guys on fire who then jump in the water...ok, I set him on fire...and...his medic heals him....he grabs a health pack...he dies...
Deal 1,000,000 damage with the flamethrower...(ok, it's really long term, I'm up to 172k)
Kill an enemy and have him kill you within 1 second of each other...
Kill someone with a taunt...
Kill someone right after they come out of a teleporter...
Have two enemy scouts one fire at the same time...when do you ever see two scouts at the same time?
Kill 6 people with your axe without dying...
Ignite 10 zoomed in snipers...when are you ever going to get that close?
Cause a dominated player to leave the server...what?  REALLY?
Kill 3 people (any class) who are taunting...when was the last time you saw someone taunt in the middle of a battlefeild?
Kill a soldier with his own (reflected) crit rocket...you have any idea how hard it is to aim reflected projectiles?  And the compression blast has a really short range.

That's thirteen acheivements that force a player to do something stupid or otherwise meet an impossible condition (or one that comes up ungodly rarely--friend of mine got the crit rocket one recently, legit).  And I didn't even list the long term, but normally achievable achievements (kill 500/1000 people, destroy 50 buildings, etc.)

Here's a medic one:
Play a full round without killing any enemies, and score the highest on a team of 6 or more players.

That one's almost impossible to achieve on an achievement server trying to give it to people!

[Granite26]

So your argument is "Because TF2 implemented it badly, I think it's a bad idea"?