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[puke]

Generic Level ups and similar colors make a game a good successor? Wow, where have I been? And the choices in Fallout are not as black and white as 'Blow up this city or don't', they generally had some kind of subtle effect that would lead into even more major progressions, having simple choices like 'Blow up or don't' does not mean that a game is free-formed.


With the interface, just because it's wearing the same clothing doesn't make it  a good sequel.

i really dont want to be in this, but does it really look that bad?  its got the same skill/stat/quirk thing as before.  everyone liked it, every RPG still uses it, what else do you really want?

Its got the same choice-based (rather than lame oblivion topic-based) dialogue system as the other fallout games, suggesting NPC interaction and quest chanins will be similar.

just because the one example of a quest wasnt SUBTILE enough, that means the choices wont be meaningful in the other quests that were not shown? 

come on...

and the interface?  really, all the significant RolePlay parts, inventory / pipboy / conversation / targeting.  they all look like the same interface as the original to me.  whats really wrong with it?  i mean, i hear some people bitch because its not 2d sprites, and other people bitch because the graphics have too many jaggy lines.

i guess if everyone is angry at it for diametrically opposite reasons, they must have hit the perfect balance.  sounds good to me.  i'll buy it.

[Jetman123]

... I honestly have no idea what people are talking about here. How is Fallout 3's gameplay video linked there _not_ grim and gritty style humor? "Scenic overlook" is presented quite prominently over a broken road with stinky water in it, chunks of earth scattered around everywhere, dead trees lining the horizon as far as can be seen. The skills, attributes and the like are incredibly tongue in cheek and the violence is over-the-top to the point of being cartoony. The atmosphere is post apocalyptic to a T, just like the past two fallout games.

So yes. I really don't see what the beef here is. The game looks great to me. Just because they're changing some things doesn't mean the game is deviating entirely from it's course as a fallout game. If all I wanted for a sequel was something with better graphics, there wouldn't be any point to buying the game. Let them experiment. I don't mean to sound rude, but I think the detractors here are being purists too much.

Edit: You can stick a _live hand grenade_ into someone's belt, and watch him explode into a thousand pieces in the middle of a conversation. If that isn't grim and gritty humor, I don't know _what_ is.

[Pnx]

I get the feeling they're going to make the same mistake they made with the oblivion menu system where it takes five clicks to do anything, and... well you could live with it but it's annoying.

At least they do appear to have a good general style for the game, the feel of it looks pretty good, although I get some weird vibes from it sometimes that just don't feel right.

One thing I'm worried about is the combat AI, they can make one for a fantasy game where it's basicly just running around bashing eachother in, but can they do the same for a game with intense firefights? Probably not, but then again I doubt it will have many intense firefights.

[Brendan]

You can stick a _live hand grenade_ into someone's belt, and watch him explode into a thousand pieces in the middle of a conversation. If that isn't grim and gritty humor, I don't know _what_ is

You're kind of missing the point here. The 'grim and gritty humor' of Fallout wasn't because you could creatively gib someone in conversation. It was the atmosphere, the dark ironies of what humans become after a nuclear apocalypse, and poking fun at the 'duck and cover' 50s optimism towards what will happen after a nuclear apocalypse.

[Pnx]

...the atmosphere, the dark ironies of what humans become after a nuclear apocalypse, and poking fun at the 'duck and cover' 50s optimism towards what will happen after a nuclear apocalypse.

Hehehe, remember kids, if there's a sudden bright flash of light and you're instantly incinerated, make your way to your nearest vault and be sure to wear your cold fusion power armor to protect you from the radiation!

EDIT: Oh, wait I'm not done, when it's finally safe to get out of there, don't forget to side with the enclave, the group of genocidal government remnants that are responsible for the original war that caused the widespread mutations they are trying to wipe out, and with their thoughtlessness of consequences more or less doomed humanity to a brutal post-apocalyptic existance.

Or you can side with the super-mutants who are trying to improve humanity with their method of massive mutation that turns people into psychotic monstrosities that with 99% of the population also makes them incredibly dumb.

Or hey, you can side with the pro-human movement of people zealously trying to bring humanity back together under their control with their technological advantage that they are trying to accumulate, they don't actually care much about the people out there, they just want to get stronger then everyone else, and they might actually wind up helping people in the end.

Or you can side with the good guys... Oh wait, there aren't any, doesn't mean that you can't be the only real good guys though, that will unfortunately mean that you get shot at and attacked by everyone else, and do little actual good in the world, also you will be more or less alone in the entire thing.

Don't forget that your original family and home will betray you in the end and exile you to live on the horribly rough surface world for idiotic reasons, I mean no good deed goes unpunished right? Even if you saved them from death/mutation.

[McDoomhammer]

Its got the same choice-based (rather than lame oblivion topic-based) dialogue system as the other fallout games, suggesting NPC interaction and quest chanins will be similar.

just because the one example of a quest wasnt SUBTILE enough, that means the choices wont be meaningful in the other quests that were not shown? 

Puke raises a valid point here.  The dialog system at least includes the possibility of varied and entertaining interactions.  I'm not expecting Planescape: Torment, but you have to admit there's potential there.  It's not the sort of thing you can show off in teaser vids.

(doom)

In short, it's satire!

I read something about how each vault was carefully designe with a fatal flaw, basically just to mess with everyone in it.  I don't know if that's an innovation or came out in F2, though.  I probably never even got halfway through it.  Perhaps I should track down a copy.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Generic Level ups and similar colors make a game a good successor? Wow, where have I been? And the choices in Fallout are not as black and white as 'Blow up this city or don't', they generally had some kind of subtle effect that would lead into even more major progressions, having simple choices like 'Blow up or don't' does not mean that a game is free-formed.


With the interface, just because it's wearing the same clothing doesn't make it  a good sequel.

i really dont want to be in this, but does it really look that bad?

I'm sorry but most of your post is just plain incorrect.

its got the same skill/stat/quirk thing as before.  everyone liked it, every RPG still uses it, what else do you really want?

No, it's not the same, it's been altered and stripped down in many ways to fit the simpler game design.  The only cRPGs that use the SPECIAL system if that's even what you're talking about are Fallout, Fallout 2, Fallout Tactics, and Lionheart.

Its got the same choice-based (rather than lame oblivion topic-based) dialogue system as the other fallout games, suggesting NPC interaction and quest chanins will be similar.

Oblivion had the same dialogue style as Fallout 3 does.  It was one of the big changes in Oblivion.  Of course there was usually only one choice to select, so they were all pretty much pointless and only served to give you less dialogue than Morrowind's topic based style.  All the options seen in Fallout 3 so far have been very short and most have been generic rude, nice, neutral choices.  Generally there seem to only be three options as well.

just because the one example of a quest wasnt SUBTILE enough, that means the choices wont be meaningful in the other quests that were not shown?

Most likely, yes.  This is Bethesda we're talking about here.  They made Oblivion, remember?  The game that was hyped as having much better quests that Morrowind among other things and then turned out not to?  Also, considering how much people are complaining that the the only quest they've shown so far has been completely unSUBTLE you might think they'd try showing one that wasn't, but no... they just show more combat.

come on...

and the interface?  really, all the significant RolePlay parts, inventory / pipboy / conversation / targeting.  they all look like the same interface as the original to me.  whats really wrong with it?  i mean, i hear some people bitch because its not 2d sprites, and other people bitch because the graphics have too many jaggy lines.

i guess if everyone is angry at it for diametrically opposite reasons, they must have hit the perfect balance.  sounds good to me.  i'll buy it.

 


This is the original fallout Character interface.  See how it's got all the info on your character on one page so it's convenient and easy to look at.

Here is the Fallout 3 interface, notice how it not only looks completely different, but there is much less space for information since most of it is taken up by useless eye candy or blank space.  Notice also that instead of displaying all relevant information on one page everything is separated into tabs that you have to select and view separately.  It's the exact same crappy interface used in Oblivion just with a Fallout style coat of bloom.  The only real difference is that there is now text instead of those obscure and useless icons with minimal tool tips which was such an insanely stupid design choice it boggles the mind.

[McDoomhammer]

You're starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel, just so you know.  Bitchily pointing out typos is never a good sign, and that last bit just comes across as "Oh noes, tabs!  Now I have to click things and remember stuff!  Oblivion had tabs, that means it's going to suck!  How dare they make it prettier!"

To unintentionally echo Puke... I mean, come on.  Even after Umiman's sensible and (against all expectations) universally approved-of criticisms, the best you can come up with is you don't like how the stats look?  For my money, it looks pretty good.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

You're starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel, just so you know.  Bitchily pointing out typos is never a good sign, and that last bit just comes across as "Oh noes, tabs!  Now I have to click things and remember stuff!  Oblivion had tabs, that means it's going to suck!  How dare they make it prettier!"

To unintentionally echo Puke... I mean, come on.  Even after Umiman's sensible and (against all expectations) universally approved-of criticisms, the best you can come up with is you don't like how the stats look?  For my money, it looks pretty good.

I wouldn't have pointed it out if I was sure it was a typo, but considering that it was capitalized as if he thought that the spelling in the post he was responding to was in fact a typo, and how completely wrong puke was about a number of things in that post, I'm not.

I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel am I?  You're the one who's simultaneously twisting my words and taking them out of context in order to suit your argument.

I was responding directly to the section of puke's post that I had quoted above the statement.  In that quote, puke stated that the Fallout 3 interface looked the same as the original interface.  I merely showed him that he was completely wrong in that statement and then went on to explain how to original interface was much better because it showed all the information at once instead of wasting space and forcing you to switch between different tabs, and that the tab interface was used in Oblivion as well, where it also sucked.

[Fualkner]

No one will win this argument. YOU ARE JUDGING ON VIDEOS AND REPUTATION. That's like judging The Dark Knight based on a 5-second teaser showing Rachel talking to Bruce and the reputation of the company recently making Catwoman. If I were to apply the same theorem that everyone is using in this thread, I'd go something like this:

"Well, the Batman movies sucked before this one... and they made that abomination Catwoman. And hey, they don't have the same actors, special effects guys, or director... This movie will suck!"

You can't judge things based on a teaser movie. Really, they aren't going to show the story, because then people would bitch how it's spoiling it. Most of the gaming population is going to enjoy the combat the most. So, naturally, they show that. The best you can hope for is that they keep all the flavor intact. And if they don't, you can not purchase the game. No one is forcing you to buy the game. If you don't want it, just ignore it.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

No.  It is predicting what a game will probably be like based on several minutes of actual footage of game play as well as a large number of interviews, previews, teaser trailers, press releases, and the overall direction of the hype, as well as the reputation of the studio making the game, when all of it points to the game being like the last one they made.

It goes something like this:

"Well, Fallout was great, and they didn't make it but they did make Oblivion which was a dumbed down console port with a crappy console interface even on PC, horrible animation, horrible AI, average graphics that were worse on the PC than the console because they couldn't be bothered to make them work, mindless, linear quests, horrible dialogue and bad voice acting that wasn't even consistent in the same character... etc...  And hey, they have the same actors and special effects guys and one of the guys who worked on the last game in a different job is now the director.  This game will probably suck."

[Brendan]

To go with your film analogy, it's more like expecting that Uwe Boll's next movie will be a piece of trash.

[Jetman123]

A big screen full of information is...

Well, let me put it to you this way.

If you strapped yourself into an F-16 right now, which has over 200 buttons/switches/controls all labelled with acronyms, and the jet was completely turned off, and you had no idea how to turn it on, would you have any idea where to begin?

"Information overload" is a proven and documented phenomenon where the human brain sees a large amount of information and ceases to process it because it's too complex and varied. It's what causes airline pilots to suddenly freeze up in emergencies and go "duhhhhh" while their plane crashes. It's the reason why computer illiterates sometimes sit down in front of a computer and forget their own phone numbers. It's _also_ the reason why many, many games on the market become underdogs or overhyped, because people hate, hate, hate, HATE screens full of information that they have no idea how to use. In all honesty I think they're clever for seperating it neatly into group-related columns to reduce the probability of that happening. Yes, Oblivion tried that approach and it failed horribly - that doesn't mean they're going to fail _this_ time. If anything the interface looks much neater and more intuitive. They're going to get more people involved in Fallout. How is that a bad thing, if all it means is that you have to divide the interface up?

Secondly, again, you're judging the entire theme of the game via a total of about 45 minutes of gameplay footage. The game will last much longer than that. The idea of a "sheriff" in a post apocalyptic town convinced that he's in the Wild West, pretty much, is just mocking human nature right there.

Or that people feared the A-bomb so much before it, and then suddenly they build a town over an unexploded nuclear bomb as soon as more bombs go off.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

You can't be serious...  Are you seriously trying to tell me that people now days are too stupid to deal with the character sheet Fallout had 10 years ago?  That their brains will lock up if they see something that worked perfectly fine ten years ago? That... Actually you know what?  That's probably exactly what Bethesda thinks too.  That's the whole problem with the gaming industry now days.  Game companies make games assuming that their customers are total idiots.  Wow, thanks for that epiphany.  Though it doesn't make me feel any better realizing that Fallout is being designed to cater to people whose brains shut down when they see more than seven stats on screen at once.

[motorbitch]

you just *want* to hate it.
it makes you .. .different.
if f3 wuld look exaclty like f2, you wuld still hate it. because they wuld have missed a chance to make it better. because even if it looks alike, its still not the same, because the heroes made the prequel didnt made it. because the one button in the menue has a different colour.

anyway, i feel quite uncomfortable here... by the same reason i wont doom it without a proper base of judgement, i dont realy want to it without.