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[Reasonableman]

Yup, just came out this month.

I tried playing Fallouts 1+2, but it just moved too darn slowly for me. I couldn't get into it.

[Aqizzar]

I wouldn't say F3 feels rushed, it's certainly lacking in persistence.  That's something Bethesda never had much luck with - even in Morrowind and Oblivion working for factions just takes you from one simple quest to the next, and even if you wound up the master of a House, you couldn't do anything except... well anything.  There were just no quests left to do.  Why they didn't do more factional stuff in F3 like in the originals I don't know, but I imagine it had less to do with time than content size.  It occurs to me what kind of constraints it puts on development when every single line in an RPG has to be voice-acted and stored in data.  So they faked it with 3-Dog occasionally mentioning you on the radio after you complete public quests and such.

As for it being too short, that's entirely a matter of perspective and what you want to do.  For instance, with my first character (abusing the hell out of Sneak and Small Guns) I've logged about 15 hours and I'm not even at the GNR station yet.  I've almost avoided the main quest because I'm constantly sidetracked by "ooh what's that over there?" problems, and attendant side-quests.  In that sense, Bethesda did a good job.  That's part of why I don't think it feels rushed - as anyone who made outdoor areas in Morrowind can attest, world building is not easy or fast.  And F3 is damn big and more than detailed enough to keep me distracted, suggesting a lot of effort.

I won't fan any discussion of "tactics", except that the AP limit means proper FPS skills are still very much required.  "Tactics" in F1 and 2 for me meant buffing endurance and agility and finding the super-sledge to batter my way to victory.  And yet I never finished F2, just too slow and meandering to hold my interest.

Oh yeah, editor.  It's right here.  I'm now going to waste some time with it.

[firefly28]

I didnt expect there to be anything like that out yet, thats great they realise modding is a massive part of the alure to bethesda games. If the truth be told I like betheshda , I just worry if their direction is going to be feasible longterm.

Batheshda aside I would like to see game companies forgetting all this need to get the latest and greatest lighting/graphics/physics and maybe just aim for respectable graphics which will run on most peoples PCs and less harsh graphics = more content, also I think lets dump the voice and get back to actually reading again because of the quests are well enough done, the fact they are in text wont matter and once again this = more content (I do appreciate the absolute little in the way of an immersive main plot F3 has that it does have other good arreas but I cant get ove how the main story ends, I say this as someone who has explored most of the map and done a big amount of the filler, my point morrowing managed to make filler feel like it was needed to get to the main story and in my view F3 didnt achieve this, although this may not matter to many of you , it matters to me)

I have done loads of F3 filler quests but tbh having a good main story is also very important to me and thats where F3 really falls over in my eyes. I should also add make lots of parts in the story that you just wont be able to do until you have seen the world, I liked how morrowind had a lack of urgency and you new roughly what you needed to do but it was like "go explore" , consequantly I have morrowind+ all expansions and I did a royal A ton of quests lol, storyline ones included and I still never reached the end and I havent even visted the werewolf island, and I was on the game for dam months! I enjoyed it alot and I will go back to it, now thats replay value right there because there is so much great content, sure nothing perfect but I just feel epic games seem to be consigned to history. I guess people just dont like having to work for months to attain a goal or actually work in a thriving world, I just love true open endedness

[Torak]

morrowing

Though off topic, I would like to mention this is how I ALWAYS manage to spell 'Morrowind' the first time while typing it.

[firefly28]

lol dam! yeah I always do that, corrected one earlier, haha never get away with it completely lol

[Aqizzar]

Funny, I keep trying to spell it Morrowwind.

[umiman]

I finally submitted to my boredom and grabbed this off usenet. After installation and playing through around 3 hours, I gave up and uninstalled.

It's so... dreary... And the slow movement, poor aiming... bleh. Also, trying to read something on the PIP-Boy while the whole screen moves is so nauseating. Like trying to read while you're driving cross country.

Yeeaaah... don't really like it.

[Puck]

Everything has been said now, so let me start from the beginning 

10 years after release I got around to play FO1. I was left breathless after I finished it, and I'm still baffled by how great a game it is. I cannot quite put my finger on, the story and the world (which doenst feel THAT alive...) just sucked me right in and only spat me out after I finished it.

It was just a piece of art, I suspect it was because everythign was done with love for detail.

Fo3 looks (of course) a whole lot better, but it feels a lot more crap. Its fun. Its decent. It doesnt live up to the hype. When you have graphics that enable you to see if somebody has widened pupils or an acne face, it suddenly feels VERY VERY wrong when you cannot climb that pile of rubble that is blocking the road. (That in fact was very weird. there were spots you COULD climb the rubble and spots you couldnt. And they both looked the same. with holes in it big enough to fit a human body through)

Maybe in 10-20 years, when our games are A LOT more stupid than they are now (assuming the industry keeps following current trends  ) MAAAAAYYYBE I'm gonna buy it. Right now... I'm happy I spent the money on food & booze.

[Micro102]

i dont think any game is advanced enough to let you squeeze through random holes in mounds of garbage yet. even assasins creed

[Puck]

Lol mentioning assasins creed when it comes to advanced 

Anyways... I'm not talking about "random holes". I'm talking about sloppy hitboxes.

Some of the rubble is in place to stop the player (so he HAS to go underground). And some of this rubble looks more than climbable. And there are spots that look absolutely the same WHICH YOU CAN PASS.

And stuff like this becomes problematic, especially since games are moving to "photorealism" at an increasing pace.

[Sergius]

Everything has been said now, so let me start from the beginning 

10 years after release I got around to play FO1. I was left breathless after I finished it, and I'm still baffled by how great a game it is. I cannot quite put my finger on, the story and the world (which doenst feel THAT alive...) just sucked me right in and only spat me out after I finished it.

It was just a piece of art, I suspect it was because everythign was done with love for detail.

Fo3 looks (of course) a whole lot better, but it feels a lot more crap. Its fun. Its decent. It doesnt live up to the hype. When you have graphics that enable you to see if somebody has widened pupils or an acne face, it suddenly feels VERY VERY wrong when you cannot climb that pile of rubble that is blocking the road. (That in fact was very weird. there were spots you COULD climb the rubble and spots you couldnt. And they both looked the same. with holes in it big enough to fit a human body through)

Maybe in 10-20 years, when our games are A LOT more stupid than they are now (assuming the industry keeps following current trends  ) MAAAAAYYYBE I'm gonna buy it. Right now... I'm happy I spent the money on food & booze.

The Elder Scrolls engine that they use has this retarded feature that you can't jump if you're standing on a steep slope. This was done probably because in MW people kept climbing mountains and stuff doing it so they made it harder. Also, if you can't climb the pile of rubble is because Bethesda placed an invisible wall over it so you wouldn't just climb your way into the central DC where the GNR is, and so on.

It's quite annoying, and worst of all there's nothing telling you that this is the case, you just try and try to get over the stupid rubble pile until you just give up and assume it's a hard limitation they placed to railroad the story.

[Aqizzar]

Not so much railroad the story as define areas, but yeah it's pretty annoying that rough-terrain rubble piles and solid wall rubble piles are indistinguishable.  That's bad design any way you look at it.  For that matter, all the invisible walls are disappointing - I spent like 10 minutes trying to dance my way through those broken windows on the office buildings with no doors.

Indeed, the more lifelike the terrain, the more you expect to interact with it in a lifelike way.  I keep looking at those rubble piles thinking, "Dammit, that thing is a ladder of rebar, I know I can climb it."

[Puck]

The Elder Scrolls engine that they use has this retarded feature that you can't jump if you're standing on a steep slope. This was done probably because in MW people kept climbing mountains and stuff doing it so they made it harder. Also, if you can't climb the pile of rubble is because Bethesda placed an invisible wall over it so you wouldn't just climb your way into the central DC where the GNR is, and so on.

It's quite annoying, and worst of all there's nothing telling you that this is the case, you just try and try to get over the stupid rubble pile until you just give up and assume it's a hard limitation they placed to railroad the story.

I know the effect you're talking about, and yes, its around the GNR area.

But I didnt have the no-jump problem, im telling you, the problem was... some of the higher pieces of scenery you need to climb arent solid, so you fall through that piece of concrete, or simply your're stadning right in front of the hole you need to pass, but you just can't-

And then there was this rubble roadblock i climbed thinking... why the heck do I even bother? I wont be able to pass that hole anyway... and then I just walked right through it.

Annoying as hell, if you ask me.

[Micro102]

started playing fallout 1 again and remembered why i quit.....merchants are randomly found in the desert and you need to travel the entire freaking map to get a peice of rope to climb down an elevator shaft

[Aqizzar]

started playing fallout 1 again and remembered why i quit.....merchants are randomly found in the desert and you need to travel the entire freaking map to get a peice of rope to climb down an elevator shaft

Pretty much every town has a merchant in it somewhere.  Getting ropes are a little bit rarer, but you can buy one in Shady Sands.