Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

The Miners Guild - House Tekkud (Pick)

The Woodworkers Guild - House Lolum (Wood)

The Stoneworkers Guild - House Lam (Stone)

The Animal Handlers Guild- House Fer (Beast)

The Smiths Guild  - House Zuntir (Anvil)

The Jewelers Guild - House Istrath (Jewel)

The Craftsdwarves Guild - House Rigoth (Craft)

The Fishworkers Guild - House Tatlosh (Fish)

The Farmers Guild - House Ber (Earth)

The Engineers Guild - House Olon (Gear)

Handlers of the Dead - House Rash (Death)

The Military Orders

[Dae]

Othob, you're right about strikes... It looks like I haven't played for too long.
But there's a problem : if they mandate more jobs, it means they have less than they wanted. This can mean they're greedy, or too numerous for the number of jobs you can offer, but it can mean you just don't need them.
So if a strike is just them not doing jobs for X days, if you don't need them, it won't be a problem.
The same is true if you need them, but for some reason mandate jobs done. If they're active in your fortress, it won't be much of a problem, since you always need jobs done.

Except if they take the average amount of work they have spread on a season, add some more and let you a season to fulfill the mandate. For instance, let's say 685 is the average number of crafts made in a season. The Craftdwarves Guild won't mandate 25 jobs made, but 685+25 = 710 in a season, forcing you to have a constant challenge keeping your craftdwarves at work.
If fulfilled, the mandate would have set the average a little higher, reflecting the wish for the guild to be always more efficient (which is quite dwarfy). If not, they go on strike and you're pretty much screwed, because you need them.

This is on topic, because mandates are a GM ability.

In any case a guild must be composed of several members. 7 or 10 seems good to me. I mean that anyway, even with a total skill point, there will be a real guild.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Granite26, unwanted guilds are good for me. Anyway they'll die if they're not useful, or you can organize an "accident". But other players may think of it as a nuisance. But if discussing about your ideas, I think total points are quite dangerous. If a jeweler gets legendary due to a mood, and there's 10 novice jewelers in the fortress, the moody one will get GM. Meaning if you don't want the guild, you'll have to kill a dwarf you had a hard time getting out of a mood.

I think I remember talking about asking for help from other guilds in other fortresses in the other thread, let's take it there, as it doesn't really belong here.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I had another idea for House Rash, but I'm honestly not sure of it. Toady will probably want to keep it separate from guilds if they ever come back in. Yet, many clerical schools taught how the body was made and some were in secret learning to their students how to become assassins and selling them after as bodyguards for important personalities.

• Handlers of the Dead - House Rash (Death) - no color - Could enable murders. There would be, on the unit list, a way to mark a dwarf for assassination, if he is too embarassing. This would have a cost that would be transfered from the fortress to the House coffers.
  In the civilisation panel, you could also command the death of someone important.
  The cost would depend on the danger from the target and its importance (reflecting his protection). A demon would be very hard to kill, so it would cost very much. Also, success is not warranted. If caught, the murderer would be judged as a criminal (probably death). Sending him to murder an enemy would allow said enemy to torture him and get informations from him.

[Othob Rithol]

Of course it's onn topic...Geez you pop your temper once and everyone gets defensive 

Every so often (bur really rare) you'll see a job mandate pop up in the current version. It usually happens when the mayor is getting really pressured by a group after the economy kicks in.

Ignoring it really has no effect (other than the normal effect of ignoring a mandate) just like you said.

The only reason I included strikes is the leap of logic where the miners pressure the mayor to mandate mining jobs, the mandate expires incomplete, and a miner gets beaten.

And you are also right: If a guild is being actively used, you'll never have to worry about the job mandates. Either they will not be complaining to the GM (so no new mandates get triggered) or, if they do, the mandate will be filled quickly. The equivalent in my current fortress is the Mayor likes Pig Iron and is always mandating pig iron items. Well, my fort is a steel mill so his mandates are filled with no effort.

----

As far as House Rash as an assassin's guild...that is really creative. Bt I wouldn't want to put that in until Toady has pushed a little further into the whole army/caravan arcs as the ensuing politics. I'm probably going to drop Rash off the list (even though I hate to) because it really would be better served as a religion like Dame Licorne wrote.

----

I'm almost done fleshing out the guild abilities (and thus the main work of the thread). I still am just not satisfied with some of the Guilds (Fishworkers in particular). I'm really looking for suggestions on how a noble could aid such endeavors.

[Osmosis Jones]

My 2 cents; getting a GM related to animals lets you request for, and trade away, unusual animals, (though not megabeasts). So things like giant bats and eagles, crocodiles and elephants from the animal trainer, and carp/gar/swordfish etc from the fisherdwarves.

Edit; expanded and explained role.

The repetoire of abilities for a guild master in either of houses Fer or Tatlosh would include the capability for requesting exotic animals from either traders, or through a specific guild rep menu (in which case the gm uses his 'contacts' to procure the animal). This should not, for balance reasons, include (semi-)megabeasts, but all others available to the relevent civs should be requestable (including the various -man races).
Specifying the gender of the imported animals should be possible, but brings with it an added cost and reduced chance of success to represent the additional difficulty for the trapper. Likewise for training (dwarf killing < wild < tame < trained), and health (it may have a number of wounds remaining from its capture, or any maltreatment at the hands of traders) .

Once the animal has been ordered, it arrives (hopefully) on the next dwarven caravan as a caged animal.

Furthermore, the gm also works in reverse; he allows the sale of dangerous or exotic creatures to the dwarves and humans (elves react as with wood), with the same scales for value (badly wounded < lightly wounded < uninjured; dwarf killing < wild < tame < trained; male < female < breeding pair). To sell the animal, you will also need a cage.

Hence, a House Fer rep will allow the formation of a groundhog and great eagle trading fort, while a Tatlosh rep will allow the export of war carp to all four corners of the globe

[Dame de la Licorne]

For the fisherdwarves guild: maybe the GM could slow depopulation of the ponds/brooks, and speed up the rate of renewal.  He would also require his own personal pool, and very occasionally a fisherdwarf would be able to capture a real fish while fishing, instead of the normal vermin fish.  Once tamed/trained, these fish could then be placed in the GM's personal pool for a happy thought.

and a certain number of mined out tiles.

How about a certain number of constructions?

Yeah, that would make more sense for architecture, wouldn't it.   

[Othob Rithol]

being able to request exotic animals would probably work well. I'll add those in next edit.

I suppose a Fisher GM could regulate the fishing, but it wouldn't be able to actually increase the stocks of fish/turtles. I'll also but that in (in the form of a "perhaps"). the reason for the qualifier is that it would require an extra step of development on Toady's part.

I've also been trying to avoid things like private workshops, personal ponds etc as noble requirements because it would require a modification to the otherwise currently standardized system. The exception was the private barracks for the Military Orders. But a private pond is really just another building assigned to a dwarf....I'll have to think about that one (and the other suggestions like it).

These "special requirements" might do well to be the object a Guild Hall is declared off of. IE the fisherdwarf guildhall is designated on a pond, the masons a statue garden, House Fer uses a kennel or maybe a cage. The Military Orders would use their barracks (bed/armor or weapon rack).

Since 99% of the "abilities" work is done, I guess we could tackle Guild Halls next, and maybe even push into the other thread and see if anything productive came from there.

[Granite26]

My personal opinion is that, for balance reasons, the GMs should not give you any power you don't already have, they should just make managing the large group of people you have in the profesion easier and more automated.

That said, Auto-culling and breeding are good animal 'powers'.  The dungeon masters train anything power could also be moved to the animal guild.  Fishing limits would be nice if fish actually bred.  I'd like to see the Crafts guild give you the ability to build 'Stonecrafts workshop' to more easily manage where the jobs went.  Also, the ability to build special 'mood' workshops would be nice.  You could keep the shells, platinum and adamantium near there, and it wouldn't break your existing workshop queues.  Anyway, my 'vote' is for the powers being less special abilities and more improved logistics for the fact that the guild = a lot of dwarves doing the same thing.

[Wahnsinniger]

I suppose a Fisher GM could regulate the fishing, but it wouldn't be able to actually increase the stocks of fish/turtles. I'll also but that in (in the form of a "perhaps"). the reason for the qualifier is that it would require an extra step of development on Toady's part.

And then you can set weight limits, and charge for fishing permits, and sell bait, and stage fishing tournaments, and...

On second thought, nevermind. (Note, I wasn't making fun of your suggestion)

For Animal Caretakers, perhaps having them allows you to designate Livestock Zones, and customize the type of animal that can be in those zones. The Guild dwarves would then gather up the animals and put them in the zones, (Don't know if the animals could wander out of the zones, maybe they'd need to be walled in or something) instead of having the animals wander around aimlessly or clutter up the meeting area.

For Fisherdwarf guild, perhaps instead of operating individually with hook and line when they have no guild, instead they could work together and use 'nets' to capture larger amounts of fish (Either could use Bags or a new type of Net item). So if your fortress subsists mainly on fishing, you'd increase your yield without needing to designate more workers to it.

[Othob Rithol]

My personal opinion is that, for balance reasons, the GMs should not give you any power you don't already have, they should just make managing the large group of people you have in the profesion easier and more automated.

That was actually the point (hence I took offense elsewhere of them being referred to as "magic powers"). They should all just be logistical aids. The gray area is an ability that would come from having an organized effort (ie a military trainer or a GM automatically queuing a workshop like a manager would if prompted). The extreme gray area are reasonable abilities requested in other threads (ie Prospecting...but not the "ooh magic tile revealer").

The problem is, I'm fresh out of ideas and that leaves a large chunk of the guilds with no perks.

The other gray area is that I'd really like to get away from things that should be in the game already or likely are coming. Like many players want more control over decorations. Or the new toggles on the stones/kitchen screens. This includes things that really have no business being guild related.

BTW:The specific workshops from the crafts guild will go in next edit.

For Animal Caretakers, perhaps having them allows you to designate Livestock Zones, and customize the type of animal that can be in those zones. The Guild dwarves would then gather up the animals and put them in the zones, (Don't know if the animals could wander out of the zones, maybe they'd need to be walled in or something) instead of having the animals wander around aimlessly or clutter up the meeting area.

This hits both gray areas I was speaking of. A dedicated group of animal specialists should be able to keep a herd in its enclosure. The problem you bump into is that if you wall in a free roaming herd, they just blink with ? because they are trying to path and can't. this can kill FPS.
This is another idea that should be default, and not guild dependent.

Off Topic: My solution to the above is that I set up 4-10 ropes in a cluster. I then attach one male and the rest females. They'll breed when chained (despite the on-going debate). I then hide the ropes to make it look natural. the problem I have is that I have to be very careful not to slaughter the breeding stock, and that I need a cage nearby to keep the horde of puppies from roaming free.

[Neonivek]

One problem with guild abilities is that the majority are so basically useful that you really need to collect them all when really, you shouldn't have all that many.

on ANOTHER NOTE... some of these guild abilities really should be left to currently existing nobles... Do you REALLY need a butchering Guild, which is oddly called the Animal Handler's guild, (which may I add should be part of the Farmer's Guild) to have someone count how many animals the fort has and to have the Butchers automatically butcher a specific ammount?

Guilds should have a bonus but not at the expense of having to deal with great hurdles of annoying just to make the guild seem useful.

Id like to continue but I have to go.

[Othob Rithol]

Just because the act of butchering will be carried out by a member of the (potentially) farmer's guild, doesn't mean that the designation would not be made by the Guild that governs all the animal handling skills (animal care and animal training).

I called it the Animal Handlers Guild because, like the Farmers Guild and the Guild of the Handlers of the Dead, in its original form it was called a House (Fer in this case).

edit: I've restructured it slightly to be closer to the UD thread (which everyone seemed to like more). Now the list of abilities is meant to be a broad list of all suggestions, not just what I think is best.

We could use a few Mason, Mechanic, Mining, or Fishworking abilities.

Also looking for ideas on GM succession (and what other than death would cause it) as well as more ideas on objects to designate Guild Halls off of.

[Moron]

I wonder what would happen in the case of multi-skilled dwarves who are in one guild but then gain a higher level in a skill of a different guild - would they leave one guild to join another? (which may cause loss of friendship with members of their former guild)

Also, maybe unskilled peasants who are excluded from the guilds may try to form their own (possibly rebellious) organisation and have leaders  to demand better conditions or affordable bedrooms.

[Narmio]

Hmm.  OK, I have an additional suggestion:  Have guilds as per-civilisation or even for-all-dwarfdom organisations rather than focus them on your fortress.  What this could mean:

 

• You don't found guilds, you meet with a representative who asks to establish a chapter.  The guild representative may make certain requests of you before establishing a formal presence.  That gives an in-game reason for whatever the requirements for getting a guild are - the Mountainhome bureaucrats demand it!  They may also send envoys in addition to having the local representative make requests/demands as people have mentioned.
• As your guild grows it could become a more important centre for Guild activity - you may even eventually become the official home of a guild if you've got the largest centre of a particular industry in the world.  That could have additional requirements - maybe a Guild Hall (a Royal office for the guildmaster or something).
• This is the really cool bit:  Guild presence and guild relations should have an effect on immigration. Fortresses with guild chapters should be known as places to go if you're an aspiring or journeyman crafter.  You may even attract full guild members (who would arrive with guild membership and better skills) if your guild is doing well.

Why I like this is because a lot of ideas here present guilds as fun and with a few tricks up their sleeve, but mostly another layer of management that might wind up as an annoyance.  If having a small but growing and well-known outpost of the Glassmakers' Guild actually made you likely to attract more glassmakers and less soapers...  It would be well worth it.

Additionally, I really like the idea of the military orders.  They could be much the same under this: nation-wide elite organisations separately administered from the various armies but with a Royal mandate to train and uphold the highest dwarven standard of axe-murdering and hammering things.  What I'd really like to see eventually is Guild-owned barracks, guild-affiliated squads and your fortress attracting peasant hunters from miles and miles around to train at the beard-tip of Guildmaster Urist 'Eyeshafted' Wyrmslayer.

[Dae]

This belongs more to the other thread. It was discussed and I am part of a few who proposed quite the same thing as you just did, except that Guilds would establish as said here and become the main one depending of their wealth/number of members.

[Othob Rithol]

Several good points Narmio. I'll try to integrate a number of your ideas (especially the effect on immigration) in the next edit.

Under my suggestion (although not stated) is that the guilds are nationwide. I guess I overestimated just how informative the wiki is. Originally, upon hitting the guild requirements, a guild master would be sent to you, and his/her mandates were the demands of said organization. But those GMs were just nobles, with very little use (although the soldier guilds did give you a kickass fighter).

A lot of the nationwide systems in the other thread, and in your suggestion, are dependent on the completion of a number of arcs, as Toady develops the global systems. I am trying to avoid, if possible, adding in too much that might not fit once he is "done".

[Idiom]

As long as raising the dead gets in, I don't care what else does.