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The Miners Guild - House Tekkud (Pick)

The Woodworkers Guild - House Lolum (Wood)

The Stoneworkers Guild - House Lam (Stone)

The Animal Handlers Guild- House Fer (Beast)

The Smiths Guild  - House Zuntir (Anvil)

The Jewelers Guild - House Istrath (Jewel)

The Craftsdwarves Guild - House Rigoth (Craft)

The Fishworkers Guild - House Tatlosh (Fish)

The Farmers Guild - House Ber (Earth)

The Engineers Guild - House Olon (Gear)

Handlers of the Dead - House Rash (Death)

The Military Orders

[inaluct]

The one that shocks me is Rash...I've only kept it in for nostalgia, but evidently people really want to move tombs/have funerals/are mistakenly thinking I'm talking about raising the dead.

Actually, I just want something to go with my kickass mausoleum. I have HUNDREDS of coffins, sarcophagi, and caskets, and I have a lot of dead dwarves in them, along with a crapload of statues and paved floors, but I'm not getting any cool nobles out of it.

Also, I think it would be awesome if bones put in burial receptacles wouldn't decay at all. I'd love looking at hundreds and hundreds of dwarf bones flashing in my huge catacombs. I'm even going to build a labyrinth connecting it to the surface, and then seal off the other entrance.

[Xonara]

Umm, maybe I'm just weird, but what do you think about a noble that lets you script advanced managerial orders? The scripting language could be dumbed down and the syntax could be more or less in plain english to make it newbie friendly. You might see something like this:

IF AMOUNTOF OWNED woodcraft OFTYPE cup&toy OFMATERIAL "feather tree" ISLESSTHAN 50
::1::AND AMOUNTOF OWNED wood OFTYPE "feather tree" ISLESSTHAN 50||
DESIGNATE chopdown NEAREST 50 tree OFTYPE "feather tree";
::2::THEN NEWORDERFOR 50 woodcraft OFTYPE cup&toy OFMATERIAL "feather tree";
OTHERWISE
REDO SEC:2;
END

It's almost like pascal. Some explanation might be required. The numbers surrounded by colons would label a section. The double pipes would mark the end of a section. The AND in this case is kind of like a nested if. THEN works like you'd expect it to, it replaces {}. OTHERWISE is like an else. REDO is like a GOTO except execution is resumed normally once the end of the section is reached. Guess what END is.

[Atanamis]

Umm, maybe I'm just weird, but what do you think about a noble that lets you script advanced managerial orders?

This thread isn't that long, you might want to read it before posting further. The idea you suggest has been made here (by me):
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=23965.msg284906#msg284906

shot down here (by Othob Rithol):
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=23965.msg284935#msg284935

and further defended here (by me):
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=23965.msg284970#msg284970

If you want to carry the discussion further by addressing the points already made, that would be more welcome than ignoring that discussion in making your comment. Personally though, I'd love to see such a system implemented so that I can know the economy will run smoothly while I'm away fighting enemies, though it would definitely be different than most strategy/city builder games on the market today.

[Xonara]

Sorry, I only read the overview on the first page. But yeah, I'll do that.

[Jake]

My feeling is that  stuff like auto-queueing certain tasks, selecting training weapons or putting in work orders for individual items are things that really ought to be available from the word go; they crop up on the suggestion thread fairly often, and I think it would be better if guild bonuses were actually bonuses -ie useful but possible to get by without- rather than abilities without which certain tasks are incredibly irritating.
And you also seem to have missed the most obvious one; why not give guild masters the power to raise wages?

I have a couple more ideas, but they really need a post of their own, so more to follow.

[Othob Rithol]

Wage increases are already mentioned in the "what they do" section. GMs would petition the Mayor to increase all guild related labor's wages.

I'm adamantly against extensive, free-from automation. I can see having some repetitive tasks be automated (like processing fish, smelting ore etc) but I'd never want a  "keep up with citizens demand for socks" to reference one argument.

Three reasons I included the automation I did:

• Logically if any repeat order is made, somebody has to make it (by sitting in an office)...the manager already handles all user inputs, so to me the GM seems a logical choice.
• It was being (and is being) requested a lot.
• Lack of solid ideas for Guild Abilities that don't cross into the realm of absurdity.

Please, post your ideas here if you have any good ones for Guild Abilities.

[daemoria]

For those who really want the house rash in the game for the zoom to corpse ability, you might be forgetting one thing. The fact of the matter is that if you keep your stockpiles updated to a reasonable ammount, you should see the bodies in the 'corpses' section.
In fact, this is what I use to find out where the corpses of the dwarfs who 'died from the heat' or something strange like that.

[The Minister]

Bump! I think the new squad enhancements could make this awesome thread relevant once more. 

I also had my own idea for a long-term goal:

Once the king comes to your fortress, he'll be demanding tribute from the other fortresses/sites in the kingdom.  When those sites aren't performing adequately in some regard, the king may send a guild master to them to whip them into shape.

for example, if a particular site doesn't have access to valuble metals, the king could sent the guild master of the mining guild to show that fortress how it is done.  The guild leader will stay there until the miners strike veins of sufficient value to satisfy the king's demand.  Then he'll head home.

another example, if a site is frequently being raided or loosing many caravans to raiders, the king could order a leader of one of the military guilds to go train the dwarves of that site. 

Or if a site is being seiged and their buildings destroyed, the head of the mason's guild would be sent to set up a wall or a moat.

This would add to the late game challenge because you won't always have access to your most experienced dwarves.  Also, it would allow your fortress to have an influence on the development of surrounding sites.  This could make them more unique of meaningful in later adventure mode exploration.

[jamoecw]

i noticed that you are having trouble finding a way to have multiple dwarfs create a guild as opposed to an individual while still allowing jewelers and what not still form guilds.  you liked the experience thing but didn't like the fact that one super dwarf could create a guild.  the answer, multiplicative experience requirements.

instead adding up the experience in a fort to see if a guild is formed multiply each dwarf's experience.  hence 10 skilled dwarfs would be 14,116,709,565,337,600,000,000,000,000,000,000.  this would make it pretty easy for a bunch of moderately skilled dwarfs to create a guild, and very difficult for one uber dwarf.

it should be about as easy to program as an additive method, and modding it in the raws could be handled by (average skill per dwarf)^(number of dwarfs).  this would allow dynamic guild creation requirements (8masters and one at talented will work, as well as 13 novices).

if you want to keep a player from getting all of the guilds you could even multiply the result by the percentage of dwarfs of that occupation that make up your population (10 woodcutters in a fort of 100 would be worth double towards a guild than 10 in 200).

just throwing out more suggestions for the requirement section.

[nagual678]

I love this suggestion. For full impact, Guilds could be implemented in a way that carries the gameplay from the micromanagement of the beginning to the more strategic/planning parts you want to concentrate on as your fortress grows larger and you approach the endgame.

For example, take ore auto-mining. Keeping an eye on what your one or two miners are coming across in their tunnels and manually designating ore for them to dig out is a reasonably entertaining and interesting gameplay mechanic at the start of a fortress. However, you don't want to keep having to do that every time you mine around, because it gets really annoying in the long run. Here comes the guild: a sufficiently established guild will make your miner dwarves mine ore automatically when they come across it, so you don't have to spend your time doing tedious things like that anymore and you can concentrate on the larger scale gameplay stuff.

You can apply the same logic to many features that make the top of the eternal voting system, such as standing production orders, workshop material selection, etc...

[kuketski]

This suggestion is brilliant! it can be combined with Dwarf Foreman functionality and serve its purpose for real!
the other concept to embed in it is grouping dwarves and workshops to gain more control on job queue - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1545626#msg1545626 and even more features can be gained if combined with "Standing production orders" - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=46325.0

This way production can be automatized GREATLY and can be used by Toady as a great construcion block to build AI controlled fortress which user controlled dwarves can raze or be razed by!!!

[Andeerz]

INDEED!  I love this as well.  Good thing it's so high on the suggestions list.  It could also really help the system of economy in the game.  Though I'm not well versed in the study of economics, I do know that guilds were an incredibly powerful factor in the medieval economy.  They functioned, as the wikipedia article says, as a mixture between a trade union, a cartel, and a secret society.  A lot of what guilds used to do in the earlier versions of DF and the suggestions here model some of that, though I need to read through this thread a bit more and read up a bit, cuz there are a few things that I think might not be adequately covered for my taste...  I think there might need to be a reworking of fort vs. personal ownership, and trade on the individual level...

ALSO:

This way production can be automatized GREATLY and can be used by Toady as a great construcion block to build AI controlled fortress which user controlled dwarves can raze or be razed by!!!

YESSSS!!! WIN!!!    Also, it could provide an interesting way for things in a fort to not just be some communist utopia (not saying that's necessarily a bad thing!), with the demands and automation of workers/guilds/other organizations actually creating a free market with real, observable effects!  The way I see it, the ideal of the game is making a fort such a well-oiled machine that it runs itself with minimal player input.  The role of the player is to plan and shape a plot of earth into this well-oiled machine.  With guilds and a realistic model of medieval economics (and real economics for that matter), there would be multiple ways of attempting this.  I can imagine the game having the flexibility for the player to have the option of controlling every facet of dwarven economy in their fortress as a benign (or despotic) dictator, or behave as a merchant magnate and creating an environment for a prosperous free market, or behave as something in between...  Shape the economy into a socialistic commonwealth, or into a mercantilistic ideal, or into a paradise for capitalist enterprise.  Whee...   

Also also.  And this has probably been talked about before, but I think that the mayor and broker and other nobles shouldn't necessarily be the ones with the sole authority of altering prices of goods.  That should definitely fall more under the purview of the administrators of the guilds.  AND there should be a way to interact with the guilds, making demands of them that they can accept or reject with you or other governing entities in your fort able to set and enforce the consequences.  In particular, perhaps one could override (or attempt to override) the authority of the guilds (with consequences of course, like strikes and unhappy thoughts) and even banish them altogether if they start to lead the fort in a direction you don't want it to go (just like some situations in real life!!!). 

[kuketski]

Shape the economy into a socialistic commonwealth, or into a mercantilistic ideal, or into a paradise for capitalist enterprise.  Whee...   

Also also.  And this has probably been talked about before, but I think that the mayor and broker and other nobles shouldn't necessarily be the ones with the sole authority of altering prices of goods.  That should definitely fall more under the purview of the administrators of the guilds.  AND there should be a way to interact with the guilds, making demands of them that they can accept or reject with you or other governing entities in your fort able to set and enforce the consequences.  In particular, perhaps one could override (or attempt to override) the authority of the guilds (with consequences of course, like strikes and unhappy thoughts) and even banish them altogether if they start to lead the fort in a direction you don't want it to go (just like some situations in real life!!!). 

Global fort tendences affected by personal preferences of a leaders.....
Hell, yeah, it would be neat!
Or squad training like bunch of spartans because squadleader is a bloody militarist...


how about possibility of creating open economy model? its hard and resource consuming, but possible!
trader can set any prices for his goods, but if no one is buying it (customer come to look at good and rejected the high price), he should lower prices!

[AngleWyrm]

how about possibility of creating open economy model? its hard and resource consuming, but possible!
trader can set any prices for his goods, but if no one is buying it (customer come to look at good and rejected the high price), he should lower prices!

Or just set the price to whatever the market demand is. If there's only a demand for a dozen picks, then the price of picks should fall to a level where exactly a dozen picks will be bought. Perfect match.

It's a little more complicated than that: If picks are sold cheap, many picks will be sold, for a total of numPicks * pricePerPick. And if picks are sold expensive, few picks will be sold, which comes to a different total. There's a simple formula for figuring out what the maximum price for picks should be in order to get the most money. The only thing is that it requires modelling consumer demand for picks.

There has to be in the background a level of 'want' for picks, which can be measured in how many picks the people will buy at any given price.

[kuketski]

how about possibility of creating open economy model? its hard and resource consuming, but possible!
trader can set any prices for his goods, but if no one is buying it (customer come to look at good and rejected the high price), he should lower prices!

Or just set the price to whatever the market demand is. If there's only a demand for a dozen picks, then the price of picks should fall to a level where exactly a dozen picks will be bought. Perfect match.

It's a little more complicated than that: If picks are sold cheap, many picks will be sold, for a total of numPicks * pricePerPick. And if picks are sold expensive, few picks will be sold, which comes to a different total. There's a simple formula for figuring out what the maximum price for picks should be in order to get the most money. The only thing is that it requires modelling consumer demand for picks.

There has to be in the background a level of 'want' for picks, which can be measured in how many picks the people will buy at any given price.

Well, with each bought pick, rice on them can simply rose up! and if customers will start to refuse the buy because of the high price - then prise should be lowered by trader.
its following demand and supply model!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

this way, economics can be balanced by itself.

to make things clear - this model can be used in inner economics of fortress or/and in global economics(trading with caravans).
trading with caravans this way can be tricky - we can sel then few masterwork goods to rose prices on them and then mass-sell entire stockpile. to balance prices with traders we should be able to sign contract on supplying certain amount of goods on fixed price(as in real life).
of course, trading process GREATLY depends on trader - how good he can wind up the prices on selling and lower prices on buying.