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[Granite26]

Wouldn't that fall under Mechanized workshops?  (A specific technology used to justify them).  I'll knock it in there, for sure, but is there any in-game benefit to allowing a player to build a piston rod separate from a mechanized (powered) building that subsumes the concept?

[MagicJuggler]

Mainly because it grants us another means by which to translate rotational force into linear force, and vice-versa. Bellows could be a mechanical building for air transfer (for recharging aircanisters or air-tanks), true, but what about building giant thwomp-like crushers, walker legs, etc.

I was going to ask about sliprings (for more analog computing fun), but if we get rotatable structures, those would be implied anyway.

[Veroule]

There are a few things that were discussed and never got added to the list at the top.  Also I would like to suggest a few basic things that should be in.

1. For pressure plates and levers, add task remove linkage.  This would send a mechanic to pull out the mechanisms.

2. For pressure plates, add task adjust settings.  When the task is added it displays the settings screen for the plate as they currently are.  A mechanic would have to go to the plate to make the changes.

3. For all current traps and sensors, can be turned off.  This should be able to be done through a linkage or by adding a task and having a mechanic run over to the trap.

4. Applicable to anything that can be linked to, add task open, close, raise, lower, retract, extend, engage, etc.; whichever word is appropiate to the structure and its current state.

5. Control the signal that is sent for each linkage.  It has already been put in the list that we want to be able to close a door and open window on the same lever pull.  Levers currently send a specific signal based on the position they are being moved to, and pressure plates send a toggle signal.  Gears treat all signals as a toggle.  What is really needed is for gears to respect the signal being sent, and let the user set what signals are sent when the linkage is created.  The signals I see are on, off, and toggle; where on/off would be the appropiate word for the structure being connected.

6. Pressure plates working as a float switch don't actually work.  What they need to do is send a different signal to the linked items when they move out of range.  For example a pressure plate set to 4-7 water shouldn't send a toggle when the water hits 4 it should send whatever the user set.  When the water then drops to 3 it should send the other signal the user set.  Because the range could be 3-4 there should be signal settings for below, in, and above range.

7. With linkages actually having the user set what signal is sent we again should be able to add task, adjust linkage.  It would let you pick the linked structure, and then would display the setting menu.  This task would make a mechanic run over to do the appropiate changes to the lever or plate.

[Silverionmox]

These probably should be implemented before anything else in the thread.

[Granite26]

There are a few things that were discussed and never got added to the list at the top.  Also I would like to suggest a few basic things that should be in.

1. For pressure plates and levers, add task remove linkage.  This would send a mechanic to pull out the mechanisms.

2. For pressure plates, add task adjust settings.  When the task is added it displays the settings screen for the plate as they currently are.  A mechanic would have to go to the plate to make the changes.

3. For all current traps and sensors, can be turned off.  This should be able to be done through a linkage or by adding a task and having a mechanic run over to the trap.

4. Applicable to anything that can be linked to, add task open, close, raise, lower, retract, extend, engage, etc.; whichever word is appropiate to the structure and its current state.

5. Control the signal that is sent for each linkage.  It has already been put in the list that we want to be able to close a door and open window on the same lever pull.  Levers currently send a specific signal based on the position they are being moved to, and pressure plates send a toggle signal.  Gears treat all signals as a toggle.  What is really needed is for gears to respect the signal being sent, and let the user set what signals are sent when the linkage is created.  The signals I see are on, off, and toggle; where on/off would be the appropiate word for the structure being connected.

6. Pressure plates working as a float switch don't actually work.  What they need to do is send a different signal to the linked items when they move out of range.  For example a pressure plate set to 4-7 water shouldn't send a toggle when the water hits 4 it should send whatever the user set.  When the water then drops to 3 it should send the other signal the user set.  Because the range could be 3-4 there should be signal settings for below, in, and above range.

7. With linkages actually having the user set what signal is sent we again should be able to add task, adjust linkage.  It would let you pick the linked structure, and then would display the setting menu.  This task would make a mechanic run over to do the appropiate changes to the lever or plate.

OK, I think I grabbed all of it.  I'm not sure what I've missed from above, let me know if I'm still missing anything.

I'm not sure how I feel about a few of those.  The trinary state seems to be a little out of character to me, as do all of the different toggle and output control elements.  I certainly see their value, but it starts moving into the realm of a simple pressure plate not being possible without a great deal of knowlege.  (One of the advantages to rock traps right now is it takes 2 rocks and a mechanics shop.) 

I may rephrase things...

[mickel]

Hmmm, what's the difference between a training dummy and a weapon trap?

One maims and kills, the other bruises. Though essentially a training dummy could very well be a weapon trap fitted with padded weapons and operating with less power.

[G-Flex]

I still say that having to manually reset weapon traps makes the most sense.

A weapon trap, realistically, has two options:

• No external source of power. Since weapon traps are overpowered anyway, and perpetual motion kind of silly, it would have to rely on spring-loaded weapons or something, and, regardless of implementation, would have to be reset just about every time it's used.
• Some external power source is applied, resulting in big swinging axe blades or something. This kind of trap would probably be hard to STOP from moving in the case of, say, it not being triggered yet, but I guess it might be possible.

[Solifuge]

I'm extremely excited about implementing Steam-related mechanics and traps. It's Dwarfy and low-tech enough to fit the world, while also adding a lot of potential. Steam carried in constructed pipes could be used to blast invaders, power traps and industry, and even create megaprojects, like walls of steam vented from the ground around your fort, to conceal your soldiers from enemy archers' line of sight during a siege.

This thread handled Steam pretty comprehensively, including with steam production, transportation, steam-to-power conversion, and even a rather interesting Steam Cannon siege weapon that combined the elements of a Ballista and Catapult.

[G-Flex]

Conventional wisdom at the DF forums is that steam power is NOT going to be implemented, and I'm pretty sure this comes from statements directly from Toady.

However, things like steam vent traps are good and would be very nice, and possibly even plausible in the current version if only steam were dangerous, which, as far as we know, might be true again by next release.

[Granite26]

The gasses section of this will probably need a major overhaul next release, as it seems like EVERYTHING got the capability to be dust clouds or gasses.

That said, hopefully the capability of both saunas and steam damage are kept.

Oh, and there's a bunch of people who still have un spoiler'd lists of yes/no's pretty high up the list.  I'd appreciate if you could edit those and wrap them in spoilers, so people can read the conversations...

[Eagleon]

Throwing this idea out there, inspired by a mentioning of a "flywheel machinegun" in S.M. Stirling's The Protector's War:

Flywheel-powered machine crossbows (really catapults, but who's counting?) with box-fed ammunition. Basically in function they'd use step up gears linked to the flywheel to hit a dart (or arrow, or bolt, or pellet...) with a solid spinning launcher bar. Would take a large amount of energy to power, and the wheel would gradually slow down as it shoots, especially for heavier ammunition. All the technology required for it is reasonably within dwarven limits, I believe, and it seems like something they'd invent to make use of all those pesky leftover arrows scattered around after a siege from the elves.

[ThtblovesDF]

A add able time delay or repeated function would be great, like a enemy steps on a plate and its rigged to instantly close the bridge behind the enemy and then with a 1 sec delay use the spikes in the ground and then 10 sec later - flood and then anoter 20 sec later to open the floodgates out.

I know you can do that already with water, but its overly complicated.

[Granite26]

Added to General devices.  Also useful as must be on for X ticks (as well as after X ticks fire)

[OverrideB1]

I like a lot of the suggestions I've seen in this thread: especially the movable walls/crusher type idea. Also quite keen on the conveyor-belt idea to move large quantities of rock from A to B - combine this with an "endless lift" and you can pretty much move masses of anything from anywhere to anywhere regardless of distance/z-level.

• An endless lift is a continuous belt wrapped around two axles - 1 at the top, 1 at the bottom. A set of teeth line the inside of the belt, these engage over pulleys fixed to the powered axle. And, before anyone yells at me that it's too "modern"^* I'd like to point out that Vitruvius reported that our good friend Archimedes built something similar circa 236BC!

^*To be honest, I don't quite get the hang up on 15th century technology. Just because something wasn't known to European technology (^i.e.batteries, steam engines, gunpowder, optics, and paper to name a few) circa 1400 - or had been forgotten/not used - doesn't mean that it absolutely shouldn't appear in DF.

• Elevator - Archimedes circa 236BC
• Batteries - circa 600AD (Babylon Battery)
• Steam Engine - Hero circa 100AD
• Gunpowder - China circa 800AD
• Paper - again China, circa 200AD
• Optical Lenses - Assyria circa 700BC

...and so on. There's probably a whole slew of other stuff the Chinese, Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Assyrians, Persians, and other folk knew that got lost in the Dark Ages or was forgotten simply because nobody could see a practical use for it. Since we're dealing with a fantasy game here - let's not get too hung up on 1400 as a "cut-off" for technology.

What is important is the use(s) that the technology is put to.

I can easily see Dwarves super heating steam using magma and using it to spin an axle - just like you would with a capstan or water-wheel.

Electricity - electric lighting and powered equipment? Probably not. Electro-plating was probably what the Babylonian Battery was used for and there's no reason some smart dwarf couldn't have discovered the same process that Brugnatelli is credited for in the 1800's.

The same is true for other forgotten technologies. I can see a use for optics straight away: a Dwarven lookout on a high tower with a telescope? Ideal for spotting invading Goblins

[praguepride]

It's kind of like aluminum:

They knew it existed, but it wasn't really useful at the time so they didn't bother experimenting with it. It was just a pretty metal or a curiosity that philosphers wasted time BSingpondered over while real people did real work.

Considering that the most advanced technological weapon is the crossbow in DF (and the most exciting technology is a simple pressure plate) I think going into "battery powered grinders" is a bit of a stretch. Sure the chinese have had gunpowder since the A.D's but they didn't use it like it's used today. At best it was used to set off firecrackers. Whoopdy doo. Just because we now know what to do with it doesn't mean that every dwarf should feel the need to make gunpowder and metal tubes for no apparent reason. Besides with modding you can always add guns into the game on your own time.

Edit: A little research turns up some interesting things. So the babylonians did have very primitive batteries, but at best guess, researchers don't believe they were used very much, except to possibly electroplate jewelry. In DF terms, I suppose you could use "batteries" built at an alchemy workshop to "plate" one metal onto another, but we already have a "stud with X" option so gameplay wise it wouldn't have very much effect.