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[ManaUser]

Personally, I'd like to see more things require machine power, but also be able to use "dwarf power" as a substitute. Drawbridges, for instance. They shouldn't require power to lower (pull a lever, maybe give the bridge a good kick if it sticks), but raising them should be a more difficult process, involving either a hand crank that multiple dwarves can operate (requires a certain amount of power to begin raising the bridge, and extra dwarves beyond that threshold raises it faster), an adjacent powered gear assembly, or maybe a counterweight assembly that can be charged with power when there are no threats about, and then have its power channeled into raising the bridge immediately with the flip of a lever (but this discharges the potential energy stored, and it must be rewound with dwarf or machine power before the bridge can be raised again).

Actually I believe drawbridges often had counterweights. They don't need to be "charged", except by lowering the bridge. It's simpler than you're probably imagining. You just put  something heavy on the other side of the pivot to offset the weight of the bridge.

It's still going to take a little more effort than a lever pull to move something that massive, so your main point stands. But using a counterweight you could make it so it's no harder to raise than lower, indeed it might be advantageous to over-counterweight it so it flips up easily but must be cranked down.

[Starver]

Actually I believe drawbridges often had counterweights. They don't need to be "charged", except by lowering the bridge. It's simpler than you're probably imagining. You just put  something heavy on the other side of the pivot to offset the weight of the bridge.

Hmm, makes me think.  "Emergency operation" of certain types of mechanism-actuated barriers/bridges.  Perhaps needs specific assignment at build-time, as to which way the behaviour goes...

Similar to a "Destroy Building" job, can be taken on by anyone lacking a purpose in the vicinity[1], they get to sever the cables holding the floodgate aloft, or detatch (counter-)counter-weights that are part of the drawbridge to force it to raise[2].  Probably this idea to be implemented once building damage (as a sub-unit of building destruction) is worked into game with a counterpart Building Repair, so that the action could be (danger of terrain and hostiles permitting) undone with a (R)epair task, needing appropriate skills (e.g. mechanics or carpentry) to undo the emergency action and put it back into its normal state of being (lever operated, as usual, or just awaiting the next cable-severing).

[1] Actually, being in the vicinity is not part of the "Destroy Building" spec, or any job, but you get the idea.

[2] Or just the normal counterweights to make it let through the sea of magma it was holding back.  Use your imagination.

[RAM]

I find it difficult to imagine a culture that makes extensive use of cogs not having some sort of mechanism for holding something in place. Something as simple as a pin connected to a lever should be relatively easy to remove in a hurry and should let you quickly release an imbalanced drawbridge without having to rebuild the mechanism every time you do it...

[Starver]

I find it difficult to imagine a culture that makes extensive use of cogs not having some sort of mechanism for holding something in place. Something as simple as a pin connected to a lever should be relatively easy to remove in a hurry and should let you quickly release an imbalanced drawbridge without having to rebuild the mechanism every time you do it...

I was really thinking about more 'impromptu' methods of operation.  And when the floodgate crashes down, or the bridge suddenly flips open, it's probably going to suffer some damage not usually encountered when hoisted into its new position in an immediately reversable manner.

And even if I'm going overboard with that, "repair" could be a cover-all term for "resetting" (letting out the detached ropes, re-inserting the pin through their eye-splice and into the structure, then winding the ropes back in to allow resumption of normal operations).


But, mostly, it was just an impression I got from the short bit of text that I replied to, rather than any full-grown solution to a given problem.  To which I also forgot to add that such an emergency operation should probably also produce a (limited) amount of "cave-in dust" from the largely uncontrolled movement of the structure concerned (and, hey... a chance that the floodgate/portcullis/whatever, falling upon the floor, could punch through to any mined-through tunnel immediately below.  In keeping with actual cave-in mechanics).  But, again, that's just a mental image being put into inadequately composed words, not a fully-formed concept of How It Should Be (TM).

[ManaUser]

I see what you're saying. In DF, floodgates and bridges can only be operated through a lever. But in reality it would most likely be possible to circumvent that, at least in one direction. Additionally, this could bypass the normal 100 step deley bridges and floodgate have, representing the fact that it slams open/shut at a dangerous speed, probably sustaining some damage in the process, at least to the linkage mechanism.

[UmmonTL]

An idea belonging to Class F that I did not see in the list yet:

Catapults
Should be able to shoot more stuff than just rocks for varying damage/effects. (barrels, spiked ball, cages, corpses and pretty much anything that is not too big to make any sense)
Could be loaded with more than one item resulting in a scattered shot.
Range would have to be affected by weight and maybe other factors like quality. (e.g. exceptional quality catapult that shoots one rock 100 squares shoots 5 rocks 20 squares)

Barrels are the most obvious choice, they can be filled with venom, explosives(rum) and the like for varying effects.
Spiked balls will simply deal more damage than simple rocks.
Cages filled with your enemies or their corpses may not deal a lot of damage but the mental image is great.
Finally if it shoots more than one item at once you could load it with the iron daggers you get from thieves or maybe a load of flasks filled with venom for a larger but less long lasting effect than a single barrel.


It has been suggested in this thread before as a means of transport:

Most of the changes I'd like to see made to the traps involve a change in the physics model.  Right now, while the physics system checks flying/falling creatures to see if they've collided with something, it doesn't check to see if creatures have collided with a flying/falling object.  So, if you drop a cow 15 z-levels onto a floor, the cow explodes into meaty chunks.  If you drop a cow 15 z-levels onto a noble, the cow explodes and the noble is not affected.  If you drop a rock 15 z-levels onto a noble, the noble is not affected.  I'd love for this to be changed.  After that:

• Remove stone traps entirely, and replace them with a trigger mechanism connected to a retracting bridge and/or hatch cover.  This would allow for multiple-z-level stone traps, as well as stone traps that dropped rocks in a 10x10 spread when the trigger was hit.
• As a corollary to number 1, allow anything to be used in a falling item trap.  Calculate damage based on how massive the object is, and how far it falls.  Anvils would be cool.  Also elephants.  Personally, I would particularly enjoy killing nobles with objects that the noble mandated to be created.
• Add modifiers to in-game objects describing how much force it takes them to break/shatter/explode;  rocks and anvils would be extremely hard to destroy, barrels of booze would be easy to shatter, ballista bolts would be somewhere in the middle.
• Add a feature to 'designate catapult ammo'.  Allow anything so designated to be fired from a catapult.  This would provide a particularly dwarvenly alternative to the conveyor-belt system, since you could use it to move goods around the fortress.  It would also be entertaining to watch a dwarf wander into the line of fire, just as the catapult crew dispatched a batch of steel battle-axes on their way to the weapons stockpile.
• Separate catapult and ballista loading from firing.  Allow catapult and ballista firing to be triggered by mechanisms.  Once a catapult/ballista was fired, it would need to be re-loaded by hand.
• With the new 'semi-artifact' system Toady's putting together, items that are used for cool stuff will get named and used in history.  I'd like to see this system extended to traps, where possible.  This would let us see trap kills commemorated in engravings and artifacts.

I have highlighted the similarities though the rest are good and valid ideas, realistic reactions to falling/being hit would be a must have for advanced catapults. Same as my idea in general though the idea of using it as a transport system should not be the main focus I think. The remote operated catapults/ballistas would also be great.
The advanced stone-fall traps might be problematic as you can put an unlimited number on top of each other for an insta-kill of pretty much anything. but then you can also place a hundred traps in a row so it doesn't make that much of a difference.

The idea was also suggested in this thread:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=51217.0

[Superlagg]

For things like electricity and other post-1400s tech, there should at least be support later on to mod that sort of thing in.

[RAM]

Power already works much as one would expect electricity to. You plug in the cable and the device works...

[snelg]

Hope this is the right place to post it.

I'd like to see traps that works similar to stone traps, but with buckets (or something similar) of different things like acids and all the other Fun things that dwarfs get killed by nowadays.
Actually, just a good way to get those contaminants on the goblins or local wildlife would be acceptable. 

[RAM]

AAAARRGH, its raining! its raining! Oh, no, don't worry, its just acid...

I was really thinking about more 'impromptu' methods of operation.

Oh, yes, impromptu would be cool, if you really want something to happen quickly you can just destroy the control mechanism to return it to its default state. Good idea!

[b1gb0y2013]

I dont know if anybody said this, but using hydraulics for lifting stuff... Like say you have a floating floor in a pond, and as you pump in more water, you can lift it. Such we can get a hydraulic elevator:

######
#~~~~#######
#~++~~~~%%~~
#~++~#######
#~==~#
##||##

| = Door

Basically the plus signs are the floor connected to the = which can be some sort of floor that can connect to a wall, but can slide up and down or left and right on the wall. Then make it so the floor float above the water. Without the sliding tiles, the floors would just sink or not move at all... The sliding tile scan also be built as a floor type or a wall and act as a movable floor/wall(Such as hor/vert axles) Im pretty sure dwarves are capable of this technology. (Now they can make a wall that uses water to push a wall down a hallway, SMASHIND GOBLINS AGAINST THE BACK WALL:


###|#####|##
~=++++++++G#
~=++++++++G#
############

[RAM]

I like it!

[b1gb0y2013]

I also think that since wood is so light, it should be able to float on top of water. Then people can make rafts, Boats, or just build their fortress on the ocean, then deconstruct the holder and they float away from shore, slowly starving to death and dehydration (Salt water... Not fresh). Also, if the constructions are built on still water such as an ocean or man-made pond, it should just stay in the middle. However if its on like a river or anything else that flows, it flows along with it. Im just flowing with some good ideas right now... 

[Aodh]

I very much endorse these suggestions.

Now, as for my two bits - I searched for it and came up empty, so forgive me if it was here before - as far as mirrors are concerned, dwarves won't be seeing much light. On the other hand, if I remember correctly, heat transfer through radiation increases with the fourth power of thermodynamic temperature - so if we could make mirrors with materials reflective in the infrared, we could just use magma as a radiation source. Should be pretty deadly alright, especially against tinned armored foes. Plus, it's an excuse to make a lava irrigation system, with remote controlled death rays mirrors. Stylish and effective.

It wouldn't even have to be modeled closely - some approximation on the lines of (near hot tiles)*(hot/blazing/blistering modifier)*(arbitrary number) for total energy and either a single tile or several tiles as recipients, maybe with an 'invisible pressure plate' activation to keep the lag down.

Of course, there's always the question of whether or not is recognizing a material as thermally reflective feasible or not using pre-1400 tech base - I'd say that it would be very unlikely, most likely requiring something convoluted like a combination of large, polished metal surfaces, a near thermal radiation source such as molten metal and discerning that it's way too hot even for a furnace, an unlikely event. Still, I think the suggestion has merit.

What do you think?

[de5me7]

if it hasnt already been suggested id like horse or animal wheels as an alternative to water and wind mills. Build a wheel, put a horse in side it, it generates power as the horse walks, simples.

Id also like pullys, but the must have already been mentioned, and the ability to construct either primitive lifts or vertical conveyors of some kind since moving metal down to magam furnaces and back up is a pain.