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[b1gb0y2013]

if it hasnt already been suggested id like horse or animal wheels as an alternative to water and wind mills. Build a wheel, put a horse in side it, it generates power as the horse walks, simples.

Id also like pullys, but the must have already been mentioned, and the ability to construct either primitive lifts or vertical conveyors of some kind since moving metal down to magam furnaces and back up is a pain.

Ya i kinda hate having to build a big stack of pumps down to magma pipes... It also makes a ton of lag for the game pumping it up... Pulleys are a good idea.

[Starver]

if it hasnt already been suggested id like horse or animal wheels as an alternative to water and wind mills. Build a wheel, put a horse in side it, it generates power as the horse walks, simples.

Can I suggest that, for balancing purposes, animals so assigned would need feeding.  In part because they're unable to graze[1] in the wild, being effectively in an upended cylindrical cage[2], but mostly in order to provide for the energy they use up.

That also means, of course, that one can't self-contain what is essentially a 'golem pump' down in the depths, isolated by the fluid, and still have to provide the access and 'safe ground' that a manual( or perhaps 'nanual'[3]) pumping stack would need.

It could even be implemented in code similarly to "training treats", with "willingness to power the treadmill" being an ability initiated by the animal trainer providing berries/whatever as per the Tame Animal task but with a time-limit, after which another treat is needed.  (Cleaning out of seeds/other food remains might also need to be sorted out, and may even only be possible when the wheel is stationary.)

Alternately, "food as fuel" is implemented as something placed in a hopper of some kind that the creature continually tries to approach, and gets 'nibbled away' (implement like a non-rotting rotting-like process, at least while there's a creature there to nibble at it), and when there's nothing left, they stop work.  (My experience with baiting animal traps is limited, but there might be cross-over code here, as well.)


[1] At least in the case of the herbivores.  You really have to assume carnivore creatures 'subsist' on the odd sneaky meal of vermin...

[2] Although caged creatures survive, somehow, and even uncaged creatures are happy to spend most of their lives in a regularly cleaned[4] meeting zone and yet somehow not starve.  But let's fudge that, for now.  That's another conversation.

[3] From "Nanus"... Latin for Dwarf (as well as variants on "pumilus")

[4] Meaning of food scraps from which they could snack, not even touching on Toady's taboo about the end product...

[alexandertnt]

If this was a bit of a bump, than I apologise.

I fully support everything. Electricity may not seem to fit in with the setting very well, but I love mechanics and they are my most favourite thing about Dwarf Fortress, therefore i would love electricity. Particularly if we have AC and DC, and transformers and such things.

[b1gb0y2013]

If this was a bit of a bump, than I apologise.

I fully support everything. Electricity may not seem to fit in with the setting very well, but I love mechanics and they are my most favourite thing about Dwarf Fortress, therefore i would love electricity. Particularly if we have AC and DC, and transformers and such things.

We dont want this TOO far into the future... Then Toady will have to start making cyborg elves 

[RAM]

Well they have enough spare parts...

[jokermatt999]

After visiting a mill earlier, it seems like screw conveyors would be nice to have in the game. I know we already have pumps, but it'd be nice to have a way to transport fluids over a distance without them spilling everywhere. I guess this falls under the whole "pipe section" idea, but this seems like it would be a good way to implement them. You could probably simplify some of the fluid calculations by only tracking how much fluid is in them, and giving a constant output at the end. But, idk.

[b1gb0y2013]

After visiting a mill earlier, it seems like screw conveyors would be nice to have in the game. I know we already have pumps, but it'd be nice to have a way to transport fluids over a distance without them spilling everywhere. I guess this falls under the whole "pipe section" idea, but this seems like it would be a good way to implement them. You could probably simplify some of the fluid calculations by only tracking how much fluid is in them, and giving a constant output at the end. But, idk.

You could just have it build like a horizontal axle, but it must be at least 2 spaces long, and requires 2 gears and leather animal skins (More needed for a longer conveyor, stretched across so it turns around the gear assemblies.)

[RAM]

Making what are effectively long screw pumps would hopefully save on processing, but there would be issues of balance with the water moving over great distances instantly...

[Starver]

Making what are effectively long screw pumps would hopefully save on processing, but there would be issues of balance with the water moving over great distances instantly...

Somewhere (maybe not this thread) I wrote something about balanced versions of conveyers that dealt with "infinistack" issues by essentially forcing just one unit of an item (although small things like seeds might be a fractional unit, where rocks were a full one) on each tile of a conveyer and requiring a 'dumping hopper' bin (or another similarly restricted conveyor to be dumped upon, perhaps also using a bin, during construction).  The hopper would have similar restrictions to contents as existing containers (but also take "one unit of rock") and the conveyor would only advance materials when there was opportunity to hopper (or transfer) the material upon the last length of conveyor.  (OTOH, as long as there was space on the conveyor, any hauler or conveyor can dump onto a free space on a target conveyer.)

An archimedian screw conveyer for fluids[1] could be similarly limited.  Possibly a series of inclines (as archimedian screws can work on the level, but there are better ways and it might as well be a plain pipe) whereby they only transfer the water (or magma, or whatever) when there's room for it to 'arrive'.  Though, in many ways, my initial thoughts of "one screw, mechanism and pipe) for every two tiles this would look very much like a set of abutting pumps in a horizontal stack.  Which (the possible need to enclose the sides, plus add a horizontal power-transfer system aside) looks very much how one would put a number of pumps to use, for horizontal transfer.  Plus how it would not shove more liquid through than it was capable of, and make it a non-instantaneous process (although fairly rapid, for all that).

Almost.  Not quite.  Because the simpler version would look like this (maybe):

                          ##~~
≈                         #≈≈~
≈÷÷≈÷÷≈÷÷≈÷÷≈÷÷≈÷÷≈÷÷≈÷÷≈÷÷≈≈≈
≈*══*══*══*══*══*══*══*══*#≈≈~
                          ##~~

...although that would leak like billy-o if for some reason the deposit end filled up and started to refuse to slurp the feeding pump...  (You'd probably want to make the powering gears, connected vertically on the layer above, and line the pump-line with walls.  And noting that I've not tried to make that kind of construct, so I may have erred in the design anyway.)

But with a 'pipeline' or 'screwline' as being suggested, you'd have each ÷÷ abutting (e.g. 13 pump-like entites for 26 lengths, instead of 9 with eight gaps) and maybe it could be considered 'leakproof' without additional casing?  And maybe even dwarf-traversable (at across on the 'traditional' non-block element where pumps are concerned.


[1] Or divisible/fluid solids like seeds, to relate to grain elevators.  Though for some reason I don't see DF-era farming going 'industrial' on grain (or powder) quantities so needing conveyors of this type.  If I now find farming easier (recent needs to irrigate underground, aside) than I did when I penned this nom-de-clavier...

[Cheese]

Sorry for bump and if this was mentioned before. How about also having a crane sort of building to aid with tall megastructures or something similar to help with construction?

[Executer]

I like the list of things that's there atm.  Although a lot of the computational/repeating ideas you can do already with pressure plates and innovation.

[Uristocrat]

I've been thinking about a way to modularize traps and I've come up with this design by splitting up all the current traps into separate parts:  Actuators, Triggers & Power supplies.  I'm not entirely sure that all actuators should require power (e.g. dumpers could operate on gravity alone), but I'm not entirely sure that some shouldn't, either.

### Actuators ###

* Shooter
Shoots an object in an approximate cardinal direction (including up or down) when triggered.  Accuracy & power is dependent on the mechanism quality, item weight, etc.  Not as powerful as a ballista or catapult, so not exactly a replacement.  Yes, that means that it might go way off course...  This is for *objects in general* so you could, for example, load it with stone, anvils, booze, etc.  Or add a ranged weapon that fires in a certain direction.  You could also shoot a cage at someone, but I'm guessing it'd be pretty inaccurate.

* Dumper
Think of two big doors that open on command, dropping whatever is on top of them onto the square below and then closes up quickly.  This could drop the creature into a pit trap.  This could drop a stone onto their head.  This could dump a one-tile magma shower on top of them.  Fun!  Oh, and you could stack them.  Picture a stack of dumpers that all have stones on them--each drops stuff onto the one below.  Or load it with a filled cage and have it drop the animals from inside it (but not the cage itself).  Or load it with an *empty* cage and turn it into a cage trap ...

* Pendulum
Put a war hammer or a stone onto this and send your enemies flying!  Or a sword, axe blade, etc. and chop them up.  Maybe even a cage, though the weight of the cage would cause it to detach if it caught anything.

* Stabber
Great for spears... or swords.  More likely to jam, than a pendulum, though.

* Support
This is the same as what we have now, mentioned for the sake of completeness.

Power:
Hand Crank (Dwarf powered)
You can power pumps via dwarf power, so I guess you can use them to power a waterwheel.  This is just a bit more direct.

* Windmill

* Waterwheel
Same.

### Triggers ###
Pressure Plate
* Same as the current one, but also be able to trigger based on the *weight* of items on its tile.  In short, if you drop a heavy rock on one, it would trigger one set to that trigger type.  Oh, and it would be nice to be able to build any of the actuators on top of such a tile containing one of these, to allow more complex trap setups.

Lever
* Same as what we have.

Timer
* You can already make these (e.g. chained cat surrounded by pressure plates, just have to replace when it dies), but this would be a little more convenient.  Consider it the most optional of the bunch.

*************************

The fun of this comes from combination.  You link one pressure plate at the end of the path to a ton of dumpers with empty cages and catch everybody!  Until the second squad shows up and you're still reloading...

Or you hook them up to a pendulum... but now there's a delay to account for between the time the pressure plate is hit and when it activates, but at least you don't have to reload as much.

Or you make a stack of dumpers that feeds a shooter... and hook that to a timer.  Suddenly you have a semi-automatic catapult or something.  Pity no one knows how to aim these things.  Enterprising folks might even be able to use it to haul stone up a few levels, somewhat like catapults have been known to do (except that they can't send it to a higher z level).

I think there are more possibilities, but I haven't thought them all through yet...

[RAM]

I would expect the pendulum to be more prone to jamming than a stabber, you would just need to put something in its path, whereas a stabber would generally need something to be stuck to it so as to prevent to from retracting...

No guarantees that this basic idea isn;t already recorded somewhere, I am not keeping track but it sounds sort of familiar...

I think that dwarven technology could engineer any of these devices to activate once, but power would reasonably be required for them to repeatedly activate.

If dumpers could be rigged to only drop a specific weight of objects in a single activation it would allow it to activate multiple times without being reloaded, which could probably be done from the target area with the right tools. Should be separate from a downwards-facing shooter?

[Starver]

You could also shoot a cage at someone, but I'm guessing it'd be pretty inaccurate.

Reminds me of Project Pigeon...  Not actually a suggestion, but, thought it worth mentioning.

Or load it with an *empty* cage and turn it into a cage trap ...

This would address something I have a problem with, with cage traps.  Because they are essentially non-blocking, I sort of envisage cage traps as being cages (necessarily originally manufacturered so that they can be 'folded out' upon the floor) snapping up around the victim.  In bush and shrubbery areas, I could see that being disguised, but on bare rock (or, worse, smoothed/decoratively engraved stone) that leaves a big wooden (or metal/etc) cage on the floor.  I don't see it being a suspended trap that falls, in the open air, although I suppose one built inside could be suspended fro the ceiling (at least until that's deconstructed) so mix-and-match.  Maybe traps should need natural surface on the tile floor, or a roof above.  (And if either gets changed, trap deconstructs.)  However, that's just a thought that ties in with this suggestion.

Hand Crank

As a loading/priming mechanism for traps, or are you adding that for mechanisms in general?  (Although the only non-trap mechanical application I can currently think of using a hand-crank for is remotely powering a pump, where one hasn't had the foresight or opportunity (e.g. dangerous external environment, and a shortage of water for a Perpetual Motion system) to link wind or water-powered rotary power-grabbers down to a remote pump in a hazardous area that you don't want your dwarfs anywhere near.)

Pressure Plate
* Same as the current one, but also be able to trigger based on the *weight* of items on its tile.

I've not messed with modern (2010) pressure plates, but IIRC there's already creature weight, as well as the traditional water/magma depth.  Although being responsive to things like rocks would be interesting (which don't currently do any damage, outside of a traditional specifically constructed stone-fall trap?) and consider a variant on the 'cat randomiser' based upon where a catapulted stone lands.  (Actually, consider an automatic training device, where you could have the dwarf locked into the catapult area until they get three straight hits at maximum range, with appropriate combining.)

Timer

I think I've previously gone for the idea of in-line-delays being a two (or three) mechanism black box, constructed at the mechanic's shop before emplacement.  Although thinking about it in hindesight, the quantum interactivity of remote items perhaps make it more relevent to use a delaying mechanism(-combo) instead of a normal mechanism as part of a standard two-item selection for mechanical linkage.  Unless you want them to be dwarf-adjustable.  (Then as well as lever control rooms, you might have an adjacent (or anywhere!) timer control room set up.)  But that's just waffling thoughts.

Suddenly you have a semi-automatic catapult or something.  Pity no one knows how to aim these things.

Another mechanical linkage idea, remotely aimed catapults.  Could be attached to an axle (actually, probably needs that to power the actuator) but otherwise lever (or pressure-plate/etc) controlled.  Either an input turns it position 1 or position 2, as set on construction (a second input allows positions 3 or 4?) or a clockwise-setting input makes it turn that way one step (another input could be set for [anti-/counter-]clockwise, or just pull several times.  But in the former case, the semi-automatic catapult can be made to trigger to defend whichever bit of corridor a pressure-plate has been triggered in.

Enterprising folks might even be able to use it to haul stone up a few levels, somewhat like catapults have been known to do (except that they can't send it to a higher z level).

If ramps were a bit more reliable/accurate (not just pathing devices) such that rocks that fell on ramps would then roll to their 'down' end, then I could see a chute collecting thrown rocks (by catapult or bridge) feeding another catapult.

Actually, it'd also be interesting to see "Indianna Jones"-style rolling rocks going down a multi-Z incline.  But that'd mean making stones (or specially carved stone balls) fatal to things by movement other than the horizontal component of catapult chuckings.  And dwarfs would have to be susceptible (if there was nowhere to get out of the way into) to make it balanced.

[jokermatt999]

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html

There's a new section for "improved mechanics". It looks like some ofthese are going in!