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[Weev]

So, a common problem with my forts is that the migrants dont seem to show up until the second or even third year.  Now this gives my original seven some beastly stats from having to do EVERYTHING, but it also increases the difficulty since tantrum spirals seem to be a constant threat, and if you even lose one, it's pretty much game over. 

I want to know what causes this annoyance to happen.

After reviewing over a few posts, I quickly found out that your wealth is linked to your fortress migrations.  I was fairly confident that my forts were pumping out quality crafts and goods every time, and I began to scratch that off in favor or the common answer "It depends on the type of good" when I looked at the most recent forts status screen.
It's "Imported" wealth grossly outweighed what the fortress had in general.  I blinked a few times, as my fort was on it's first year, and the caravans have not even found my fort.  So I put my kitten leather thinking cap on, and came to the realization that the goods that I had selected to bring with me, the meat, and drink, and even a steel warhammer, caused this massive debt.  I blinked again.

Is this the answer?  Does "imported wealth" subtract from your created wealth (and in the future, exported wealth), to form a number that the migrants look at?  Is the massive food supply I bring, to counteract the massive shortage of migrants, actually keep those said migrants away?

Uhh...Discuss.  (I suck at ending posts.)

[Randy Gnoman]

I don't think so.  It's not uncommon for some of my more killy forts to have a steadily higher amount of imported wealth (because the only trade goods I generally produce are bone and leather, and the clothing and weapons of my foes (and dwarves!), the latter of which don't count as wealth produced), and they still get immigrants.

Try digging out a bunch of ore and gems (even if you don't need them yet), and smoothing a bunch of rooms, engraving even.  That seems to get me a lot of immigrants for fairly little effort.

[Weev]

I don't think so.  It's not uncommon for some of my more killy forts to have a steadily higher amount of imported wealth (because the only trade goods I generally produce are bone and leather, and the clothing and weapons of my foes (and dwarves!), the latter of which don't count as wealth produced), and they still get immigrants.

Killy forts?
The numbers get fuzzy once you reach a later date in your forts existence, but that's not the question I posed.  Does brining a lot of shiny in the beginning hurt your migrant population?

Try digging out a bunch of ore and gems (even if you don't need them yet), and smoothing a bunch of rooms, engraving even.  That seems to get me a lot of immigrants for fairly little effort.

Again, I'm not looking for advice, I just want to clarify a mechanic of the game.  But since you mentioned it, I'm proud to say that my forts USUALLY hit the 2 mil mark by the end of year two.   Mass digging for artifacts is fun.

[jellyman]

I think a dwarven caravan has to come first and assess your wealth before you get migrants, and I suspect that is the delay.  I have tried to deliberately promote migration by churning out crafts.  I have tried to deliberately delay migration by trying to keep wealth from getting too high, and always find that my first migration wave is always around 20 or so dwarves no matter what, and always seems to take a fair while arriving.

I don't vary my starting set up heaps, so I don't know if that is or isn't an issue...

[Tcei]

I've noticed similar things. I've managed to get migrants as early as that first spring before the caravans arrive, in those cases it was because I happened upon large quantities of ore and gems. In other fortresses where I've churned out large amounts of crafted goods (mostly stone crafts), but kept the amount of mining relatively low I'd frequently get very few migrants or the message The Fortress has attracted no migrants. While others, such as my current fort, where Im churnign out massive amounts of stone crafts and have a pretty large area mined out, I've managed to get waves of migrants pretty early (why oh why must every wave be all fishers and hunters?) and be pretty big normally tripling or at least doubling the population.

Now that Im done rambling, Im going to say its a combination of the ammount you've mined out, wether it's stone or sand, with stone being more desirable than sand. Then of course trade  goods you have, while stone crafts are great for selling they dont seem to attract many migrants, but if you trade all that stone for metal crafts and gems it works great!

[Weev]

I'm starting up a new game this morning to test the theory, by brining along nothing but my seven dwarves, to test it out. (At least, seven dwarves, and minimum equipment.)

 

I've noticed similar things. I've managed to get migrants as early as that first spring before the caravans arrive, in those cases it was because I happened upon large quantities of ore and gems...

...Im going to say its a combination of the amount you've mined out, whether it's stone or sand, with stone being more desirable than sand...

I have to point out that you do get value in room architecture when you mine. If you create more rooms, or more elaborate rooms, it adds to the combined wealth.  Remember that stones and ore you mine out DOES get added into your stores, and therefore have a value.  So yes, mining out a large amount of stone WILL increase your wealth, while sand will only get you points for your rooms and designs.

I think a dwarven caravan has to come first and assess your wealth before you get migrants, and I suspect that is the delay.

Untrue, I have had forts that have had early migration waves, way before the first caravan shows up.
While we're on that topic, I have to point out that the migration number might be static, or at least very hard to change.  Again, this is straight hypothesis, but soon I will have some tests to figure things out.

I don't vary my starting set up heaps, so I don't know if that is or isn't an issue...

When my naked fort gets done, I'll run a "Play Now" fort to compare the numbers.

[Proteus]

It might also have to do something with quality of life.

It often seems to me that I increase my chances to get migrants very early (first year, sometimes even summer) if I already have things like a dining hall and bedrooms up and running (so, maybe [as these things directly influence the mood of the dwarves] the chances for early immigration are influenced by the happines of your first 7 dwarves)

[hexrei]

I think that # of dwarfs that died lately have an influence on immigration. Even just one or two deaths sometimes causes my immigration to drop a lot.

[Mephansteras]

I'm pretty sure there is a good deal of randomness to it. I've had forts with only a moderate amount of overall wealth (say, 10k) get migrants before the first caravan arrived. And others, with wealth approaching 30k or higher, not get anyone to show up until sometime late the next spring.

Usually by the end of my first year I have a dining room, bedrooms, farm plots, and a functioning metal industry pumping out billon crafts, and maybe some other stuff if I've found any easy source of iron, silver, or gold right near my starting location.

Maybe this info will help those of you testing out theories on what attracts migrants. I've never had a fort where no migrants had arrived by the middle of the following summer. So, either a lot of it is just luck, or there are other variables going on here beyond wealth.

[R1ck]

To answer the original question: No, stuff you bring with you(That is grey and has brackets around it) does not subtract
from total fortress wealth or your chances of getting immigrants. Otherwise, your wealth would have to go
down whenever a caravan, siege, or ambush arrived. They merely do not add to it. The reason immigrants do not
show up might be because the dwarven civ is very far away.

[Weev]

Sorry, RL stuff got me tangled up all day, I'm running the tests now.

It might also have to do something with quality of life...
It often seems to me that I increase my chances to get migrants very early if I already have things like a dining hall and bedrooms up and running...

This might actually be a part of it, Does having open rooms make your fortress more attractive?  I'll try and look into it.

I think that # of dwarfs that died lately have an influence on immigration. Even just one or two deaths sometimes causes my immigration to drop a lot.

I can say that it has been pointed out time and again that if a dwarf, or dwarves, die, immigration is slowed.

I'm pretty sure there is a good deal of randomness to it. I've had forts with only a moderate amount of overall wealth (say, 10k) get migrants before the first caravan arrived. And others, with wealth approaching 30k or higher, not get anyone to show up until sometime late the next spring.

Usually by the end of my first year I have a dining room, bedrooms, farm plots, and a functioning metal industry pumping out billon crafts, and maybe some other stuff if I've found any easy source of iron, silver, or gold right near my starting location.

Maybe this info will help those of you testing out theories on what attracts migrants. I've never had a fort where no migrants had arrived by the middle of the following summer. So, either a lot of it is just luck, or there are other variables going on here beyond wealth.

I'll see if maps that have a lot of valuable minerals contribute. Thanks for the info!

To answer the original question: No, stuff you bring with you(That is grey and has brackets around it) does not subtract
from total fortress wealth or your chances of getting immigrants.

It's true, it dosnt subract from the fortress wealth, it adds to it.  Can you back up that statement with info? I'd really appreciate it.

The reason immigrants do not
show up might be because the dwarven civ is very far away.

I've started in places with no dwarven civilizations in sight, and have had migrants flock to the fortress.  It might be a part of it, but I do not think that it's the whole deal.

So, recapping the question for people to refocus:
Does your starting equipments cost affect migration?

[Weev]

Start:
Created Wealth : 9

Imported Wealth: 14539

6 peaseants
1 clerk
2 muskox



Mid Summer-

Created Wealth: 4457
Furniture: 670
Other Objects: 1151
Architecture: 2180
Displayed: 456

Imported Wealth: 14367

~No migrants~

[Jing]

just something to mention...

stuff your starting dwarves wear, as well as stuff immigrants come wearing, all count as goods made "somewhere else"... and thus, I believe, imported wealth.

When trading, stuff not made at your fort is shown in white; you'll note that if you take all of a dead noble's clothing to sell, it will trade as white.  Also, you will no longer be able to make an offering if white trade goods are among those selected.

I suppose the idea is "You are offering me my own stuff.  This.... is dumb." Like giving your friend a dvd for his birthday... a dvd you originally borrowed from him to begin with.

However, this also includes goblins goods and the like, so the game isn't being particularly discerning about the actual origin of goods, merely "own fort" and "not own fort".

Anyway, because your dwarves do not come naked, and will always have a wagon (having some value) and some sort of animal to pull that wagon, you cannot get your starting imported wealth to be 0 (i believe).

And ultimately, I don't believe imported wealth vs. exported wealth makes a difference: Whether I make a rock statute myself, or I obtain one from elsewhere, the fact is: I have a rock statute of some worth in my mountainhood.  That is to say, I have wealth, regardless of where it came from (it's not a measure of trade deficit and the like... )

[Weev]

  You do point out a good point.  The giant cave spider silk *insert item* probably makes up the majority of your started exported wealth.   
So my new goal would be to try to pass the exported wealth mark with created wealth, and see if that triggers immigrants.
...it also explains some things as to the random nature of it.  The clothing might be randomly generated, thus, if you get a fort of pigtail wearing bumpkins, you might have a lower exported wealth mark, thus, passing it quicker, and seeing the immigrants come.  Granted, it might be that many of the other factors add on to that, but I'm pretty sure that it's the case.  Anyone else have any info they'd like to share?

[Felix the Cat]

There has to be other factors beyond total wealth created that influence immigration.

I had a possessed dwarf create an adamantine war hammer (value 760k dwarf-bucks) which makes my current fort by far the richest this early (artifact created in spring of the 2nd year). Immigration has not been noticeably different so far from other fortresses. I just got the immigrant wave for spring 3rd year, which was pitifully small (but, wonder of wonders, all useful dwarves!).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oddly enough, no adamantine king either. I thought he arrived as soon as the Mountainhome got word of adamantine being struck?