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[FlyingScissorKick]

I got this fort that is around 25 years old. All is well.

The goblin sieges were coming more than once per year and were pretty heavy in numbers. I just notcied that I haven't gotten a siege yet in my current year. When I checked the civ menu, all the goblins have is a ruler, high priest, and goblin recruit.

The invasions were anywhere from 60 - 100 in size. I'm not sure but I think I noticed at the peak that the forces were numbering around 100 but scaled back to 60 the last few. Now it's been a year with nothing.....

I don't remember having any local leaders in the sieges but a bunch of em did have neato items so maybe they were killed as well.

Are the goblins just playing dead waiting to attack me with a huge force or are they defeated (for now)?

[Untelligent]

After worldgen ends, entities stop having children (although post-worldgen births are going to be implemented eventually), so it's entirely possible you wiped out the entire military force of the local goblin civ.

[FlyingScissorKick]

hmmm. so I've won essentially. I can always self destruct I guess.

I do see that the human civ has around 10 weapon masters. Maybe I'll sieze items on the next caravan and see how things go.

Does siezing goods create enemies?

[userpay]

Better to just kill them off.

[Deathworks]

Hi!

I am not quite sure about that.

As far as I know, the average goblin soldier (not the leaders, mind you) is currently created the moment the ambush is created and not taken from the pool of historic figures. So, limitations on historic figures would not affect the standard goblins.

I don't know what causes the absence, but I don't think they are defeated. If the civ screen still lists a leader and so on, they should still be around.

Deathworks

[penguinofhonor]

Deathworks is right. Currently, goblins are created the second they enter your map. The only creatures that aren't generated on your map are liasons.

[Tormy]

Indeed, all sieges are generated now, and siegers aint using any entities from other civilizations.
This will be changed once the Army Arc will be functional, so instead of generated sieges, armies will be "real", which means that all units in the sieging force will come from a given civilization.

[FlyingScissorKick]

So they may just be sittin back to accumulate a massive army?

*EDIT*

Nevermind. A siege just came. Only around 80 - 90. Seems they are still mullin around behind the scenes. Just took a long long time.

[Pilsu]

I really don't see how the army arc could work. Goblins take 12 years or something to mature so you need thousands constantly breeding for them to be able to throw so much fodder your way

Works in the world gen but not in actual gameplay unless you want a siege once every decade at most


Then there's the issue of their equipment. They're gonna start showing up naked if it's not magically generated

[magikarcher]

Toady will get it all worked out. If nothing else you will have immature goblins attacking as drum-boys. That would be a good use of instruments, morale boosters.

[Lightning4]

Deathworks is right. Currently, goblins are created the second they enter your map. The only creatures that aren't generated on your map are liasons.

All save the leader of course, should he happen to pay for fortress a visit. The local dark fortress leader, anyway. I'm unsure if the demon will ever decide to pay a visit.

[Tormy]

I really don't see how the army arc could work. Goblins take 12 years or something to mature so you need thousands constantly breeding for them to be able to throw so much fodder your way

Works in the world gen but not in actual gameplay unless you want a siege once every decade at most


Then there's the issue of their equipment. They're gonna start showing up naked if it's not magically generated

Well yeah, good questions...I think -in order to have decent sieges- settlements will have to be quite big. The armies will come directly from the settlements [and that is how it will work]. So lets say we want to see 150+ big enemy armies in sieges at least? Well if that Army will come from 1 settlement, that settlement must have at least 500+ population, in order to stay alive and remain active.
So I am also wondering that how will this work, Toady will spend a lot of time balancing this, Im pretty sure about that..

[Deathworks]

Hi!

Well, world gen needs a lot of balancing improvements anyway (megabeasts die out too quickly, elves even quicker in standard worlds).

With goblins, the distinct lack of goblin individuals is a major problem. In most older worlds, you have goblin fortresses full of elves, dwarves, and humans, but no goblins. So, goblins need to be much more numerous anyway, I think.

Deathworks

[Grand_Marquis]

This is true about world gen needing to be more balanced.  I believe the intent is to have civs that are capable of attacking with (if not literally showing, at least implying with a seemingly endless stream) multiple hundreds of entities if they so choose.  Also, civs will no longer always be: generic human, generic dwarf, generic goblin, generic kobold, generic elf, the end.  They'll be related directly to who actually, really exists within trading distance (which again will require balancing, since right now it's rare to find yourself near more than two civs at most by the end of world gen).  this could mean angry, expansionist humans, or it could mean a civ comprised of a goblin/elven mix, or whatever.  And maybe there are two and maybe there are seven.  And maybe some are right in the middle of fighting each other.

It also means those civs will be capable of getting immigrants, just like your's (something like this has already been implemented in world gen when cities are abandoned, so it's getting close).  That means you won't necessarily have to wait for the children of the corn down in goblin city - whose entire adult population has been decimated - to grow up before they start attacking you again.  But you shouldn't expect to see very large parties anymore, and it's entirely possible you could destroy them all before they even have a chance to breed in the first place, if your fortress/dwarfs end up being just that badass.

But even then, no worries.  Because somewhere in your world there might possibly be a much larger goblin stronghold, ruled by a demon, and they may have just taken notice of your genocide attempt. 

[Narmio]

A single Goblin tower shouldn't be able to put together an overwhelming army that can face down a dug-in stronghold. That should require the goblins to rally troops from all nearby settlements and descend on your fortress as a horde.

Still, there's simply no way that current populations of any race could survive the weapon-trap-meatgrinder that is the typical DF siege.  Worldgen battles have fairly low death rates, but in-game sieges can have near 100% kills. 

I know I design my fortresses with the ability to position troops behind the goblin forces to catch retreats.

So either goblin populations and or birthrates need to go massively, massively up, or sieging goblins (particularly the leaders) need to be less likely to die.  Stuff like sending in the peons while the elites hang back until traps are sprung, doors are down and archers are engaged, etc.  So that if the siege goes completely tits up, the leaders and the reserves can beat an organised tactical withdrawal and come back next year with more sappers.

Personally, I think we need both.  The traditional personification of the evil fantasy race (not that we need to stick to that) is an overwhelmingly huge horde of expendable infantry with a very small number of extremely dangerous elites and exotics.  Maybe in DF goblins can be the elites, and they need more war-beasts, slave troops (complete with goblin taskmasters!), and mewling minions spawned by their demonic overlords.