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[moocowmoo]

I kind of wish there was an option in the current version where you could have an embark site just like the old 2d one. The thing I miss least about the 2d version is rooms bigger than 7x7 caving in without supports.

[tp12]

I kind of wish there was an option in the current version where you could have an embark site just like the old 2d one. The thing I miss least about the 2d version is rooms bigger than 7x7 caving in without supports.

well thats interesting... when you look at this topic http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=23090.0 some pll miss it the most... and even i a non 2d'er would like to see it back.

[smeej]

I'd like to have some greater cave in threats, but maybe not the 7x7 thing. Maybe natural disasters or explosions that can shake the fort and mess with it's integrity.

It would be really neat if the site finder could eventually locate areas resembling the 2D maps.

[Aaron5367]

I'm a newbie, so I haven't played the 2D version. And I have no desire to try it. But one thing I'd like to see brought back (if I've heard correctly) is the requirement to re-flood your farms each season. Either that or fertilize, say. It just seems more realistic, and farming is a bit TOO easy right now.

But that's just being picky, I know.

Bill

I played the 2D version back in the day. I don't recall having to flood your farm annually. I did, however, generally build my farms quite close to the cave river (which was guaranteed as I remember it).

Edit:
I really liked the 2D version. I was addicted to it for a few weeks, and I left the game for a few months to come back to this. I will have to say that the simplicity of the 2D version was to be admired. The dwarf fortress community was far from where it is today back then. It made things much harder. That is why it took me 2 weeks just to get the basics down (casual playing). After that, I started to get bored.

[LordBucket]

2d was a lot more difficult.

 * No natural soil. Farming either required manual irrigation with flood gates, or "Nile" farming on the cave river. The deadly cave river that flooded regularly, killing dwarves year-round.

 * The ceiling caved in if you tunneled any area larger than 7x7. But not right away. It waited. so you might not even realize you had a problem until much later.

 * The AI was much less forgiving. In 3d, the random creatures often levae you alone. In 2d, they were viscious. Leopards and elephant and unicorns...all out to get you. You couldn't go more than a few years without things showing up on your dwarfstep and eating dwarves.

 * 3d has potentially 360 degrees of "outside." 2d doesn't. There was less room, and only one arrival point, so caravans frequently had to navigate through those same leopards, elephants and unicorns. So did your lumberjacks. In 3d it's possible to go years without even seeing the zombie gophers because of all the open sapce and the multiple z-levels outdoors. In 2d, there was only one level, so you always knew exactly where everything was. And they always knew where you were too.

 * Way less starting stuff. In 3d, it's pretty trivial to start with enough food to last you a year or two. In 2d, it was barely possible to bring enough food to last to the end of your first winter. Much less choice in what to bring, too. For instance...no bringing logs, stone, and anvil. Your first anvil was brought by an immigrant after a couple seasons, so no early metal industry, and no logs meant treeless maps were a lot harder.

 * No farming during winter. Winter was a time to starve to death. And...naturally that was when the immigrants arrived, to eat up all your food before spring arrived.

...ahhh....2d. I sort of miss it.

[1138]

I tried playing 2D and had a lot of fun with it...until it started making my laptop overheat consistently. Losing because your computer crashed and took your last hour of gameplay with it is not fun.

[Asehujiko]

2D was the time when you had 20 nobles all making demands at roughly the same time, you couldn't bring enough food for your 1st winter, a 5x5 plot only fed 10 or so dwarves unless your growers were legendary, legendaries were harder to get, farming required irrigation or seasonal flooding which meant you couldn't start till autumn, you couldn't farm in winter, immigrants showed up in late autumn, a legendary dining room was not enough to keep dwarves happy, legendaries were harder to get, flux and metal were sparse, finite resources, you couldn't build structures, attacks came from everywhere including cave river, chasm and magma pipe, pits were night impossible to survive, you couldn't mine adamantine without ending the game, moods always required specific materials, said materials were always located deeper in the mountain then you, there were no marriages between your starting 7 so if you were in a "no trade" region that was all you would get, it was impoosible to forbid/dump objects, races would attack if you rob their caravan often enough, weapon traps were less deadly, animals were much more agressive and powerful, smithing could only occur on the magma river and was prone to attacks, there was no machinery, the hammerer was harder to avoid and attacked much more often due to the huge noble population etc etc...

[Balor Kartain]

I personally think the 2d version had a much steeper learning curve, but was less indepth. I liked the fact that legendaries were harder to get, but hated the fact that it took forever to get anything done. Fortresses tended to have shorter lifespans, and the final adamantine monster needs to come back, except you should actually get to fight it.

[Brdn666]

I personally think the 2d version had a much steeper learning curve, but was less indepth. I liked the fact that legendaries were harder to get, but hated the fact that it took forever to get anything done. Fortresses tended to have shorter lifespans, and the final adamantine monster needs to come back, except you should actually get to fight it.

I agree. The game took me like 4 months to learn how to survive the first winter. You had to control every thing the dorfs did or you died. Nowadays, get a farm, kitchen and a still, some barrels, and set to repeat. Ta-da! Your dorfs now survive everything. A new 2d map would be awesome.

[Vucar Fikodastesh]

The 2D version wasn't all that hard .

Sure you had manual irrigation, but that was like five mechanisms and two floodgates. I usually had my farms up and running by mid spring, and perma-flooding could easily be avoided by using this thing we call the door. Though you didn't really need to farm at all, you could support more than thirty dwarves with just an herbalist, brewer, and cook.

The wildlife seemed to be a bit more aggressive, but that could be just nostalgia talking. You could always embark in really tame areas anyway, nothing worse than deer. And elephants could be avoided just by staying out of the "Tropical" places.

There were no ambushes either, and the sieges tended to wait until you were good and ready for them. Any invaders could be easily dispatched with some weapon traps, and weapon traps were just as deadly.

And the convenience of the cave features was pretty dang nice too, you could mine all the way to the magma before you even got your first anvil. Most of the feature invasions were easily dealt too.

• River: Probably the deadliest and most unexpected, Though i once had a single war dog tear up an entire frogman invasion
• Chasm: Trapping both sides of your bridge was usually enough, you usually only got unconscious trolls at first anyway
• Magma: The "invasions" only ever consisted of a single fire imp, magma man, or iron man. A mess of stone fall traps solved that problem easily enough, on my twenty year old fortress my only indication of magma creatures was a pile of ashes on my stone fall traps.

The tower cap farms were really nice too, all you had to do was mine out a large swath on both sides of the river. With tower caps and indoor herbalism you never had any need to leave the mountain.

On my first 2D fort I:

• Picked a warm calm area with no elephants, and watched in delight as my dwarves went about their business bothered by nothing more dangerous than deer.
• Mined quickly and easily into the mountain, knowing very well what i could expect.
• Had more than 600 prepared meals before i even had my farms started
• Started my farms with a minimum of trouble, and then didn't use them for more than three years as i used up the prepared meals i had made.
• Got my first legendary miner before i even breached the cave river.

In my first 3D fortress I:

• Picked a warm calm nontropical area, and watched in horror as dwarves were devoured by carp.
• And the few who weren't eaten by carp were murdered by a goblin ambush in my first year.
• There is no number 3.

I don't think the 2D version was easier, it was just more consistent. The current 3D version runs hot and cold difficulty wise. They are both just as susceptible to power gaming, just look at Copperblazes http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-309-copperblazes.

Addendum:

legendaries were harder to get,

The exp and attribute code is unchanged from the 2D version.

farming required irrigation or seasonal flooding which meant you couldn't start till autumn,

Seasonal flooding occurred seasonally AKA four times a year.

moods always required specific materials, said materials were always located deeper in the mountain then you,

Not if you mined to the lava by your first winter.

animals were much more agressive and powerful,

I don't know if they were more aggressive, but most animals survived the version change with exactly the same code.

I agree. The game took me like 4 months to learn how to survive the first winter. You had to control every thing the dorfs did or you died. Nowadays, get a farm, kitchen and a still, some barrels, and set to repeat. Ta-da! Your dorfs now survive everything. A new 2d map would be awesome.

Exchange "farm" with "herbalist" and, ironically, that is exactly what i did to survive the 2D version.

I think it's a vastly amusing thought that elephants are so afraid of heights that when Dwarves invented the Z-axis, they couldn't bear to face dwarves in combat anymore.

  That's a good one.

[WingDing]

I don't know if they were more aggressive, but most animals survived the version change with exactly the same code.

I'm pretty sure back in the 2D version elephants and gorillas and other 'benign' animals would mind their own business until some dwarf decided he was tired of living and attacked them, causing them to go on a murderous rampage inside of your very own fortress. This code was changed to be more reasonable in the switch to 3D (or so I remember.)

Also, how can everybody remember farms, permafloods, and nobles but not the dreaded fire plague?!