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[Asheron]

Anyone want to help start a Spore roguelike project?

Sounds good. Really. Is that just a random idea, or are you going to really work at something?

I'd be tentatively interested in that as well. If this gets serious, PM me, send E-Mail, whatever

I will join in. I'm a good programmer too, if I may say so.

Hey I want to join too. I have a half done sprite engine in C++ SDL\Lua which might be useful as a base for the rest of the code. It includes a working implementation of a Mersenne Twister (Random number generator) and 3d Perlin Noise for planetary surface generation. Give me a PM.

I am interested too. I'm not that much of a programmer, but I would be willing to help on dull things, testing and ideas. I suggest you should start with making the cell stage like it should have been until it's done, and then only start with the next stage. And for god's sake, don't make the graphics cute. >_>

[Tormy]

Hype, pressure, developer name, brand name, they all count. Deus Ex 2 was only a bad game because of the name. Everyone expected it to be better than Deus Ex, and got a nice, but different game instead. Those who liked Deus Ex didn't like Deus Ex 2, although it was very nicely done.

Here, same thing. Besides the fact that Will Wright is making the game, we were promised a great amount of great features. We expected those features, especially since it was said that they were already done. And the features weren't there. And the game turned out to be a children's sandbox instead of an evolution simulator.

Developer name I agree that it matters. Pressure related to hype. Hype doesnt matter, IF the product is good. Spore is not good. So actually since it was hyped, its an even bigger surprise that how bad this game is actually. If a product is hyped and good in the same time, thats the most profitable stuff what can happen to a developer. Have you seen the Amazon user reviews? I think its pretty much sums up the problems with Spore.

[MeshGearFox]

"And the game turned out to be a children's sandbox instead of an evolution simulator."

Spore's remaind fairly unchanged since about 2005 from my understand (or at least, gauging from the videos). I don't think Wright ever promised an evolution simulator, although I think some of the people just assumed that's what it was going to be. I never thought it was going to simulate much of anything which is why I've been wondering why everyone's so obsessed with the game for years.

Also, what's all this crap about the game being too kiddy? It looks the same now as it always did, and wasn't the original SimCity used in elementary schools quite a bit?

[Tormy]

"And the game turned out to be a children's sandbox instead of an evolution simulator."

Spore's remaind fairly unchanged since about 2005 from my understand (or at least, gauging from the videos). I don't think Wright ever promised an evolution simulator, although I think some of the people just assumed that's what it was going to be. I never thought it was going to simulate much of anything which is why I've been wondering why everyone's so obsessed with the game for years.

Also, what's all this crap about the game being too kiddy? It looks the same now as it always did, and wasn't the original SimCity used in elementary schools quite a bit?

The GAMEPLAY is for kids also, graphics doesnt matter..we didnt know anything about gameplay until now...in-game videos were cool.

[Mephansteras]

Well, I got to see it at a friend's house last night. Now that I've seen it in person, I'm definitely not buying it until it gets fixed. While it was actually lots of fun to try out the creature and tribal stages, I think I'd get bored of it after a few days. It's pretty, and seeing all the neat creatures is a blast, but it's so SHALLOW. Granted, I didn't get to see the Space Stage (he's not that far along yet). But, still, from what I've read that doesn't make up for it enough.

*sigh* Maybe it'll be worthwhile in a year or two once they've fixed stuff and gotten out expansions. It has so much potential, and it just isn't used.

[Eagleon]

Anyone want to help start a Spore roguelike project?

Sounds good. Really. Is that just a random idea, or are you going to really work at something?

I'd be tentatively interested in that as well. If this gets serious, PM me, send E-Mail, whatever

I will join in. I'm a good programmer too, if I may say so.

Hey I want to join too. I have a half done sprite engine in C++ SDL\Lua which might be useful as a base for the rest of the code. It includes a working implementation of a Mersenne Twister (Random number generator) and 3d Perlin Noise for planetary surface generation. Give me a PM.

I am interested too. I'm not that much of a programmer, but I would be willing to help on dull things, testing and ideas. I suggest you should start with making the cell stage like it should have been until it's done, and then only start with the next stage. And for god's sake, don't make the graphics cute. >_>

I wasn't planning on graphics at all, actually. The idea is that a text-based game offers more flexibility in terms of what can be made in the editors - if you don't have to animate every single action you're free to put in more of them. Things like brachiation with actual trees, as well as a more complex combat system based on body parts and life support (blood-flow/bones/muscles/hydraulics/power supply determining part damage instead of HP). Of course, if enough people go with it that could change while still retaining most or all of that flexibility.

At the moment I'm gathering ideas and deciding on what it should actually play like, and how the basic engine might be structured. Unfortunately the only language I know is Freebasic, which not a lot of people know or care about But I plan to at least make some prototypes. If people are really interested, it might be better if someone else led the project. I'm writing full-time right now so I probably couldn't put in enough hours to do the management stuff while still contributing useful code and thoughts.

[Tormy]

Well, I got to see it at a friend's house last night. Now that I've seen it in person, I'm definitely not buying it until it gets fixed. While it was actually lots of fun to try out the creature and tribal stages, I think I'd get bored of it after a few days. It's pretty, and seeing all the neat creatures is a blast, but it's so SHALLOW. Granted, I didn't get to see the Space Stage (he's not that far along yet). But, still, from what I've read that doesn't make up for it enough.

*sigh* Maybe it'll be worthwhile in a year or two once they've fixed stuff and gotten out expansions. It has so much potential, and it just isn't used.

You know Spore is like a serie of mini-games linked together pointlessly, and the whole concept is ridicolously dumbed down. The Spore gameplay system is so simple, that a monkey could understand it. Click here, click there, dance, sing etc. This game is a joke seriously....space stage is a BIT better, but its boring and repetitive even after a few hours...bleh.

[Zemat]

Hype and pressure killed this game.

I dont agree. Hype or pressure, is that matters at all? Hyped but decent game is still a decent game. The problem is that Spore is bad, very bad..the only positive stuff about it, that it will be an excellent software for small kids. I would say that 10-12 years olds will love it.

Hype twists reality in ways you can't imagine making decent things look very bad. Also pressure made this game try to reach farther than it could. If Spore was an indie game or game made by an unknown studio and was released out of the blue (as most minor studio games are released) it would be praised as one of the best games of 2008.

Most of the features of Spore are highly innovate. The creation tools are amazing and much much better than most tiresome object designers of other games, including GalCiv 2's ship creator. I can get a vehicle to look right on Spore editors in 5 minutes against the 30 minutes that takes me to make a similar looking ship in GC2's editors. Arguably the best in-game object editor besides Spore's. The creatures' autonomous behavior looks very complex (without being a full ALife sim) and the tribe simulation, while simplistic, manages to feel quite natural. If you stop to play and start to watch them go on their own for a few minutes you can be amused by their personal interactions. Although it's almost pure eye candy with little effect on gameplay.

The only fault I see with the game, a big one that's killing the game, is the shallowness of its game play and mechanics. I'm pretty sure Maxis wasted 3/4 of their time developing the simulation and making everything look amazing. But they ran out of time while working on the game mechanics. Their biggest mistake was following WW ambition of creating a "Sim Everything". They should have concentrated only on the Creature phase and they would have got a very solid game instead of 5 lousy ones.

[Mephansteras]

Their biggest mistake was following WW ambition of creating a "Sim Everything". They should have concentrated only on the Creature phase and they would have got a very solid game instead of 5 lousy ones.

I'm with you there. I'd have been quite happy to buy a game that was just a well done version of the Creature phase. If it had real life simulation aspects (herd behavior, hunting, live birth, etc) it could have been fantastic. Oh, and different goals depending on what you are. 'Allying' with other creatures is...not very realistic. Very, very, few animals have specific interactions like that. Many will form somewhat helpful symbiotic relationships with other animals, but nothing like what they did with the creature phase. Creatures don't walk around digging up fossils and either singing/dancing/whatever or attacking various groups like that.

They should have had the goal be keeping your group alive and well. If you're an herbivore, it means dealing with predators and probably migrating to find food. If you're a carnivore, it means finding enough prey and successfully hunting enough to keep everyone fed.

[Gantolandon]

At the moment I'm gathering ideas and deciding on what it should actually play like, and how the basic engine might be structured. Unfortunately the only language I know is Freebasic, which not a lot of people know or care about But I plan to at least make some prototypes. If people are really interested, it might be better if someone else led the project. I'm writing full-time right now so I probably couldn't put in enough hours to do the management stuff while still contributing useful code and thoughts.

It's not the stage when you should worry about programmers. There is a lot of them in this forum. It's designing it that would be a problem. And finding a person which would lead the project is the highest priority.

I could join at any moment, starting from the October. I know Java (and C++ and C#, though less). I could also help with designing the model. But I don't feel like leading it. Does anyone want to be the manager?

[MeshGearFox]

"If Spore was an indie game or game made by an unknown studio and was released out of the blue (as most minor studio games are released) it would be praised as one of the best games of 2008."

Yes, but if it were an indie game, it wouldn't cost 50 dollars, would've been made on much meagerer reasourches, and a developer that was probably more receptive to complaints, comments, and suggestions.

A Sim Everything type game would be possible. Very possible. It would also need to have some pretty clearly laid out design goals, a solid deffinition of what "everything" meant, here, and intense organization, which all seem like things Spore is lacking, reading these comments.

So, could I amend that sentence -- The biggest problem is that Will Wright was trying to make Sim Anything.

It *almost* sounds like that the central focus of the project shifted mid-development, actually. This is one difference I see with the older videos. It SEEMS like the creature editor/advancement thing was mostly going to be tangential, you were just going to get parts as it went along, okay, have fun adding arms, now continue with the game. I guess people responded to the Creature Editor the most, because a lot of the later videos feature THAT as central, and then youtube integration came along, and well... Tail wagging the dog, except now it's more like tail wagging the tail opposite, and the other tail is a cat tail.

[Zemat]

At the moment I'm gathering ideas and deciding on what it should actually play like, and how the basic engine might be structured. Unfortunately the only language I know is Freebasic, which not a lot of people know or care about But I plan to at least make some prototypes. If people are really interested, it might be better if someone else led the project. I'm writing full-time right now so I probably couldn't put in enough hours to do the management stuff while still contributing useful code and thoughts.

It's not the stage when you should worry about programmers. There is a lot of them in this forum. It's designing it that would be a problem. And finding a person which would lead the project is the highest priority.

I could join at any moment, starting from the October. I know Java (and C++ and C#, though less). I could also help with designing the model. But I don't feel like leading it. Does anyone want to be the manager?

I'm willing to become the manager. But I will not "lead", I'll create a new temporary thread where people can post their ideas and contribute to the project and I'll try to keep the project as democratically open as possible.

Edit: Here's the thread for anyone interested.
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=24627.0

[Cthulhu]

I guess people responded to the Creature Editor the most, because a lot of the later videos feature THAT as central, and then youtube integration came along, and well... Tail wagging the dog, except now it's more like tail wagging the tail opposite, and the other tail is a cat tail.

Now that I think of it, you're right, at first the main focus was on the gameplay, but as time goes on it seems like it's focusing more on the ability to create things, and even that isn't as good as it was when it first appeared.

[Zemat]

I guess people responded to the Creature Editor the most, because a lot of the later videos feature THAT as central, and then youtube integration came along, and well... Tail wagging the dog, except now it's more like tail wagging the tail opposite, and the other tail is a cat tail.

Now that I think of it, you're right, at first the main focus was on the gameplay, but as time goes on it seems like it's focusing more on the ability to create things, and even that isn't as good as it was when it first appeared.

I have to disagree. The creature editor is the only thing that got better. The first videos of it didn't even had a paint tool. The final creatures were textured by artists (and that maybe explains why they looked better then).

[Cthulhu]

Yes, but back then the creatures had procedural movement, and their shape realistically affected their movement.  Remember the way Hangdog walked?  Or the bird whose head swayed when he walked?  Now all of them have the same walking animation, half the time it has to speed the movement of the legs up to ridiculous speeds.