Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Areyar]

Robbing the store is too powerfull an analogy.

Rather use the analogy of refusing to take a mandatory huge shoppingcart when you only want to get a lightbulb.

I really don't like being forced to jump through hoops for someone elses profit or being penalised for something I didnt do.
When I buy a book or software, I demand to be able to read/install it any number of times I want.
OR pay far less than full money for a limited window of opportunity.
Like rental/lending or preview.
Don't like the membership metaphore, it can be much abused. And I like to be able to use my bought IP even when the company or community has stopped support.

</rant>

edit: I AM going to look out for a crack, even if it is only so that my DVD can play my favorite CD.

[Cthulhu]

Would YOU submit to strip-searches and have a tracking device injected into your bloodstream in order to shop because the store owners assume that everyone is a shoplifter?

[Makrond]

So, taking what I say out of context makes it all good?

Bottom line: Would you rob a small grocery store because it's easier than doing an honest day's work?

Of course. Because not having copy right protection on a game makes everyone who buys that game just as bad as a burglar?

I really don't see what you're getting at here. Pirates will pirate a game regardless of its security. The only people who have to suffer from things like SecuROM and Starforce are the software purchasers.

Yes, exactly. People who rob a grocery store don't have to do an honest day's work, earn money, and pay for things. So long as they don't get caught, it's easier. The world is full of situations that are similar. Are you saying that, since it's less inconvenient, we should all just steal our games from the shelves, so that we don't have to go  through the inconvenience of paying for them? Should we drive through people's houses because it saves ten minutes on our daily commute? Should a builder leave out all the rivets in a building because it gets the job done faster?

I'm fully aware that people will pirate games no matter what. In fact, if you read my previous post in this topic, I said something to that effect. I'm not saying security should be tighter, I'm saying we just need to put up with it until either human nature changes, or developers stop putting ridiculously over-complicated copy protection on their games.

Would you really do something illegal just because doing the 'right thing' is inconvenient? If so, I weep for you, because the world is full of situations where doing the wrong thing is so much easier.

In my opinion, using cracks to get around extremely inconvenient copyright protection systems after PURCHASING a game is about as illegal as recording a TV program so that you can fast-forward through the commercial breaks. And I've yet to see anyone be arrested, or even have a lawsuit leveled upon them, for using a No-CD crack.

Then you haven't been looking in the right places. I've seen far too many instances of end-users being charged or sued because they didn't take the time to read the EULA, or decided to pirate something, or even just because they decided not putting a DVD in their drive wouldn't be hurting anyone.

Ironically, the bigger the company, the more often it happens. Microsoft is one of the most prone to lawsuits over EULA violations. Do you know what an EULA is? It's a legal document that more often than not tells you that you cannot legally circumvent the copy-protection software. The only reason recording TV shows isn't illegal is because Microsoft didn't write NBC's licensing agreements.

To anyone who says they're being penalised for everyone else's problems: get out of the house more. See the world. Get into a decent job. You will see it all the time.

Also, to you people who want cracks and free stuffz!11!, you're part of the problem, not the solution.

Cthulhu: would you steal everything in the store just because you got subjected to that? 'Cause that's what everyone else seems to want to do.

[Brendan]

Yes, exactly. People who rob a grocery store don't have to do an honest day's work, earn money, and pay for things. So long as they don't get caught, it's easier. The world is full of situations that are similar. Are you saying that, since it's less inconvenient, we should all just steal our games from the shelves, so that we don't have to go  through the inconvenience of paying for them? Should we drive through people's houses because it saves ten minutes on our daily commute? Should a builder leave out all the rivets in a building because it gets the job done faster?

Now you're just being ridiculous. ALL of those situations are shortcuts which harm other people, which affect other things. Who is harmed by you making your game so that you don't need the disc inside the drive whenever you want to play it? As long as you've paid for it, it harms no one.

I've seen far too many instances of end-users being charged or sued because they didn't take the time to read the EULA

I believe you owe us a cite.

[Makrond]

Alright, so there's no mention of court cases for specifically breaking DRM/removing copy protection.

It doesn't change the fact that it's an EULA violation and therefore illegal. Hell, I don't care why it's illegal, the point is, it's illegal.

The point isn't about making the game so you don't need a disc in the drive. The discussion here is about people illegally modifying their game so they don't need a disc in the drive. Again, I don't give a damn why it's illegal.

Finally, requiring a CD in the drive is a form of protection to make sure you've purchased the game. Let's say you're unscrupulous. Let's say you buy Spore and it doesn't require a DVD. Let's say you now install it on your computer and return it to the store. You now have a game, and Maxis don't get ther money. Well done, cheapskate. Let's say you rent the game, install it on your computer and return it. While it's not technically illegal, you haven't paid the full price for your game, and that hurts the developers. What did you say before? Nobody gets hurt if your game doesn't need a CD?

"Oh sure," you say. "But you could do something like Populous and require an input every so often." Do you realise how easy it is to photocopy those, nowadays?

The methods of protection aren't brilliant, and indeed it seems like you're being inconvenienced because other people would rather do something illegal. But it gives you that sense that doing the right thing, while nearly always harder than doing the wrong thing, is so much more satisfactory. You've worked towards something, acheived it, and it makes you better than all those people who would rather do something cheaper, faster, more conveniently, et cetera.

[Areyar]

Isn't that what registration keys are for?

Assuming they are getting more complex and don't rely on an easilly duplicated number generator, but are actively monitored by the distributor online.
These should ideally make sure the user is in possesion of the software AND a key.

Would only needing disk on startup, but not during gameplay, be a workable compromise?

---
having a disc does not mean automatically that I bought it.
I could have an (illegal) image mounted in a drive emulator that has securom simulation.

disclaimer: I am no professional programmer or in any way knowledgable on copyprotection methods aside from user-end inference.

[Dragooble]

all of your analogys our way WAY too powerful. your comparing a huge extremely profitable company losing money to a worker not finishing a house and possibly killing people. and secur-rom is pointless really because as you have seen people have an easy work around for it.

im not saying i blame the company. im blaming the pirates because if they werent around secur-rom wouldnt exist. however now wee have a vicious cycle because as long as theres secur-rom we'll have pirates. as long as there are pirates we'll have secur-rom.

[Okenido]

Australia is getting Spore Sept. 4^th...
Is it just me or are they doing the releases backwards?

[Dragooble]

dont worry time is just going backwards thats all.
silly okenido

[Okenido]

I don't get it... Why is America last?

[Dragooble]

on another note i read on wikipedia that spore will be playable without a disc after installation. what disc is this reffering to?

[Sean Mirrsen]

Obviously an AOL disc.

I suppose the disc that you usually have to put inside the drive, that is the one you installed the game from. If they forsook that method and kept the game with only online registration, I suppose I can applaude them. Now to remove the need to authenticate before playing, and we're set.

[Dragooble]

heres the wikipedia article i found it on.
tell me how you interpret it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_(computer_game)#Digital_rights_management

[Zemat]

It doesn't change the fact that it's an EULA violation and therefore illegal. Hell, I don't care why it's illegal, the point is, it's illegal.

IANAL, but as far as I know most common EULAs are composed of non-enforceable and even downright unconstitutional or illegal requirements (wiki). But they are made mostly to scare end-users. And software company lawyers don't expect end-users to do a legal fight over the contents of an EULA. So, breaking an EULA isn't inherently illegal. There's no law that says so (in fact, contract-breaching by itself isn't illegal). The company must sue first and then the actions of an end-user with respect to a specific EULA must be examined by a court before deciding on their illegality and the specific EULA validity.

Since there have been very few cases where the contents of an EULA have been discussed in a court, judges haven't had enough chances to validate their contents. But once we see a case of a software company fighting on a court against a very powerful user (a rich person) with enough legal backup we'll see their EULA shredded to bits (EDIT: it has happened already, see the wiki link). But they'll probably settle out of court just to keep things quiet.

Eventually you'll see software companies doing the same thing the RIAA is doing by trying to change the law to make their stupid EULAs legally valid. But they aren't yet.

[Dragooble]

oh oh! more securrom failure! i was reading on wikipedia about securrom and it says that a securrom crack for a game often comes out days after its released. so yeah, epic fail.