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[woose1]

Wow, you guys are still talking about it?

It came out. It was below expectations. The creator of Sims is an ass. Game over.

What else is there to it?

[Sordid]

Exactly? I can't say exactly. I know that with the way I am and with the way the social system is structured, no matter what idiotic or ingenious ideas I formulate they will never be used.

Why would you say that? Einstein published his theories when he was working as an patent office clerk. Having a mundane day job does not mean you can't change the world with your ideas.

I can't do anything with these thoughts, since I rarely ever express them, but at times it's useful to dump a few kilobytes of thought experiments into a forum and see if anyone can find proof in favor or against them. All I usually see, however, is people pointing me at research by other people, not any sort of experimental or other evidently factual proof that the idea cannot explain.

Except that the research done by other people was conducted precisely to obtain such experimental proof. You seem to have painted yourself into a corner here, on the one hand you have no access to specialized equipment and on the other you refuse to accept the findings of those who do.

In other words, there is nothing to discuss here at this point, because there was no point to the discussion in the first place.

I don't think an online discussion needs a point, especially in a thread as exhausted as this one. I just jump on whatever piques my interest and then run with it as long as I'm having a good time.

"What began as a minor difference in the definition of the word "evolution", escalated into a war that has decimated a billion neurons. Sean Mirrsen and Sordid have all but exhausted the resources of the Internet in their struggle for domination. Both sides now crippled beyond medical help, the remnants of their supporters continue to battle on ravaged forums, their hatred fueled by over four thousand hours of total flamewar. This is a fight to the death. For each side, the only acceptable outcome is the complete humiliation of the other."

We don't want that to happen now, do we?
Text courtesy of the Total Annihilation intro.

Uh... no, no! No, of course we don't. That would be... bad. Very bad. Wouldn't it?

[Sean Mirrsen]

Well, what's the point of accepting someone else's findings on the matter you want to look into yourself? Kinda goes against the point of the whole "yourself" thing. And ill-equipped doesn't begin to describe my state. For example, my current area of interest is magnetism, but my equipment amounts to a broken electric motor and a few sets of Magnetix. I don't even have the basic engineering skills to make a prototype of the magnarotor I've been thinking of for years now, and no free time to learn them. And no shop that I know of in this city has anything close to something I could use to examine fluctuations in a rotating magnetic field, except compasses. So yes, I'm basically sitting in a corner in desperate need of climbing gear.

[Sordid]

Well, what's the point of accepting someone else's findings on the matter you want to look into yourself?

Findings are not the same thing as conclusions. You can just take their experiment results and interpret them differently.

I don't even have the basic engineering skills to make a prototype of the magnarotor I've been thinking of for years now, and no free time to learn them. And no shop that I know of in this city has anything close to something I could use to examine fluctuations in a rotating magnetic field, except compasses. So yes, I'm basically sitting in a corner in desperate need of climbing gear.

Magnawhat? That wouldn't happen to be some kind of magnet-based perpetual motion machine, would it?

[Sean Mirrsen]

I'm know well enough that a PMM cannot be made. The best thing to do is to stop regarding it as such and concentrate on a different aspect of it - for example, overcoming or negating the "point zero" momentum loss in a cyclic magnetic system. If it is possible, via nothing but creative design, position magnets in such a way that the zero point has no reverse effect, a magnarotor is possible - either as a reasonably long-lived energy medium if permanent magnets do lose their charge at a significant rate, or as dependable heavy-duty fixed-rate torque generators for powerplants if not. Yes, I can see my credibility go right through the rock bottom with this, but if you don't consider it a perpetuum mobile, it remains a viable idea. Yes, I have looked into the matter, I have seen some of the patent designs for such machines, but none of the ones I've seen are close enough to my vision of the thing. Of course, it's very likely that it doesn't work the way I think it should even with all the considerations I take for field strength, shape and other parameters, or maybe the position I'm looking for is possible, but cannot be maintained in a working mechanism for whatever reason. I'm both optimistic and pessimistic at once - I realize it has all the chances of not working, considering all the research that should have been put into it if it was possible (note the "should have been"), but I have a habit of trusting my own judgement if it takes all known variables into account.

[Torak]

You know, back half a year ago, I didn't actually think this topic would devolve into debating over evolution.

[G-Flex]

I'm know well enough that a PMM cannot be made. The best thing to do is to stop regarding it as such and concentrate on a different aspect of it - for example, overcoming or negating the "point zero" momentum loss in a cyclic magnetic system. If it is possible, via nothing but creative design, position magnets in such a way that the zero point has no reverse effect, a magnarotor is possible - either as a reasonably long-lived energy medium if permanent magnets do lose their charge at a significant rate, or as dependable heavy-duty fixed-rate torque generators for powerplants if not. Yes, I can see my credibility go right through the rock bottom with this, but if you don't consider it a perpetuum mobile, it remains a viable idea. Yes, I have looked into the matter, I have seen some of the patent designs for such machines, but none of the ones I've seen are close enough to my vision of the thing. Of course, it's very likely that it doesn't work the way I think it should even with all the considerations I take for field strength, shape and other parameters, or maybe the position I'm looking for is possible, but cannot be maintained in a working mechanism for whatever reason. I'm both optimistic and pessimistic at once - I realize it has all the chances of not working, considering all the research that should have been put into it if it was possible (note the "should have been"), but I have a habit of trusting my own judgement if it takes all known variables into account.

As long as you aren't about to claim that the thing can move forever under real circumstances, or provide power indefinitely, then fine?

[Sordid]

You know, back half a year ago, I didn't actually think this topic would devolve into debating over evolution.

Bah, we're past that! We're way, way past that! Now it's perpetual motion machines.

@SM: So what exactly is it supposed to actually do? Spin a shaft like a motor or something like that?

[Micro102]

there is such a machine that has perpetual motion, it doesnt generate power but has been goign for 100's of years. its currently in the museum, it uses gravity in which a ball pushes a metal thing down and it's slightly heavier side pushes it back up due to gravity and accelerates the ball. there are 3 of these levers so it rolls endlessly


and yes if gravity can be exploited enough it can make a machine move endlessly. just wouldnt be a good power supply

[Sordid]

No it can't, because to achieve that kind of thing the mechanical components would have to have zero friction. We can't do that even today, so my wild guess is that your "100's of years" old machine is total bunk.

[Dragooble]

Wow, you guys are still talking about it?

It came out. It was below expectations. The creator of Sims is an ass. Game over.

What else is there to it?

[size=8]THIS[/size][/i]

[Micro102]

No it can't, because to achieve that kind of thing the mechanical components would have to have zero friction. We can't do that even today, so my wild guess is that your "100's of years" old machine is total bunk.

what do you mean 0 friction? it can have friction, ball pushes thing down it comes back up like a see saw, the other end is sloped, it pushes ball and speeds it up, ball hit next see saw, pushes it down, it speeds it up...ect.

and sry its not hundred years its month....must of gotten mixed up with something

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7YB7eiOeQ

[Sordid]

No it can't, because to achieve that kind of thing the mechanical components would have to have zero friction. We can't do that even today, so my wild guess is that your "100's of years" old machine is total bunk.

what do you mean 0 friction? it can have friction, ball pushes thing down it comes back up like a see saw, the other end is sloped, it pushes ball and speeds it up, ball hit next see saw, pushes it down, it speeds it up...ect.

and sry its not hundred years its month....must of gotten mixed up with something

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7YB7eiOeQ

Oh, that thing. Even a cursory google search reveals statements by its maker's associate to the effect that the longest time it ran without stopping was about fourteen days. Which is fairly impressive, actually, but still a far cry from a PMM.

[Neonivek]

Huh? But in a 0-friction instance a ball doesn't actually roll... ever.

[Micro102]

wtf are you talking about 14 days??? its been going for months.