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[coldstone]

Ok i challenge you guys to do a drop onto a goblin tower, and then tell us how it all looks.
My last one was reeeally freaky. two words: Friendly Demon.
All the goblins on the map were friendly. Humans and Dwarves were all over the place too, not bothering anyone it seemed. I had a human building (least i think it was human, it was a pillared, roofed room in orthoclase blocks with levels dug down below it).
What really bugged me was how the pre built buildings didnt seem to be working right, although im not totally positive it actually was working improperly. I took over a goblin tower, but everything was labeled as 'above ground' inside the building. The human building was even weirder, there was light all over under the roof. Not really a bad thing i thought, i could plant human crops in a cool protected area. But that didnt even seem to work apparently.
So is this how things are supposed to be now in a Goblin Tower Drop or are there bugs going on here?

[Kagus]

I take it you haven't been playing for a very long time...

You're experiencing several different aspects of Dwarf Fortress.  These are known, they are not specific to goblin towers, and they're mostly intentional.

First of all, the goblins (and demon) were friendly because at some time in history, the goblins of that civilization managed to settle their differences with the dwarves of your civilization and sign a peace accord (goblins are actually pretty okay guys in this version).  The humans and dwarfves are wandering around because of the goblin habit of stealing children and then raising them under goblin standards.  They are all citizens.

That building you saw was not an exclusively human design.  It is a temple.  Temples vary somewhat in their architecture, but they're generally rather easy to recognize.  Both goblins and humans use the same general layouts.  That's just the place where the goblins go to give praise to their demon master.

The inside of the tower was labeled "above ground" because it is above ground.  If it does not have a shelf of "virgin" rock above it, it is above ground.  A wooden house built on a hill is aboveground, even the rooms inside of it.

Buildings made out of constructed materials (and thus "above ground") are given the "light" tag.  This is used for a variety of reasons, and is really just a placeholder until the lighting arc comes in.

Anything else?

[WCG]

I take it you haven't been playing for a very long time...

Me, neither.

...(goblins are actually pretty okay guys in this version).  The humans and dwarves are wandering around because of the goblin habit of stealing children and then raising them under goblin standards.  They are all citizens.

So our dwarves butcher all the goblins that come to 'visit,' even going so far as to design fiendishly clever deaths for them. But the goblins raise dwarven and human children as full and equal citizens of the goblin civilization.

Hmm,... I wonder which are really the good guys here?



Bill

[Tormy]

Ok i challenge you guys to do a drop onto a goblin tower, and then tell us how it all looks.
My last one was reeeally freaky. two words: Friendly Demon.
All the goblins on the map were friendly. Humans and Dwarves were all over the place too, not bothering anyone it seemed.

This is because of the Army Arc and relations between the different civilizations.

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

I take it you haven't been playing for a very long time...

Me, neither.

...(goblins are actually pretty okay guys in this version).  The humans and dwarves are wandering around because of the goblin habit of stealing children and then raising them under goblin standards.  They are all citizens.

So our dwarves butcher all the goblins that come to 'visit,' even going so far as to design fiendishly clever deaths for them. But the goblins raise dwarven and human children as full and equal citizens of the goblin civilization.

Hmm,... I wonder which are really the good guys here?



Bill

THERE IS NO GOOD OR EVIL! GOOD OR EVIL IS MORAL COMPASS, SO BOTH OF THEM ARE GOOD!!!!!!!!
[/rant]
Well, this is realistic. No one really good (goblins steal them, dwarves, as you said, conspiring against the Goblins), and no one really bad (Goblins raise them to full goblin citizen. While the Dwarves want to avenge their stolen babies.)

The Good vs Evil is good no more, we must see it from every side, every angle.

[KrataLightblade]

Please tell me you're not actually trying to apply moral relativism to a video game based around short, drunken, suicidal, bearded, psychotic people who routinely wander into a raging battlefield where crossbow bolts, hammers, swords, and spears are being put to rather vigorous and aggressive use to pick up a left sock off a dead goblin?

A game where elves eat people?

A game where carp are some of the most terrifying things in existance?

Please, save my sanity here, tell me that this is the internet and I just missed your joking tone?

[Kagus]

No, this isn't the internet.  What do you think that huge vault door in the Bay12 logo leads to?  We're safe in here, so long as "they" don't get through...

Anyways, the fact that it is a video game based around short, drunken, suicidal, psychotic people who routinely wander into a raging battlefield where crossbow bolts, hammers, swords, and spears are being put to rather vigorous and aggressive use to pick the left socks off of dead goblins is precisely why we discuss the morality of the situation.  It's like discussing the best uses for kitten leather, or how long a child can live after having their entrails removed and their eyes gouged out.

Mmm, me likes-a my moral discussions...

[Ubersoldat]

best uses for kitten leather

Quivers, backpacks, and water skins.

how long a child can live after having their entrails removed and their eyes gouged out.

Only a couple of turns, in my experience. The real question is: how many of his limbs can you mangle before the little bugger bleeds out?

[Kagus]

Well, that depends.  If you just cripple the joints, he can last for as long as you want.  And if you're careful, a bludgeoning weapon can let them recover from the bleeding in time to smash one of the others.  A piercing or slashing weapon will just dry them out.

And kitten leather is so soft!  It obviously should be the preferred choice for leather clothing, second only to the more expensive naked mole dog leather.  Kitten shoes are particularly comfortable and stylish, and can be worn to any occasion.  I'd rather use something sturdier like donkey leather or muskox leather for military uses.

Dragon leather, of course, deserves to be made into a shield.

[John Johnston]

Nevermind carp leather.  Carp leather?  What on (insert your world name here) does carp leather look like?   

[Paul]

Carp leather? Probably something like this. Minus the dyes, ofcourse.

Fish leather is more common than you think.

[LegacyCWAL]

Fish leather in general may look like that, but I imagine that Carp leather would look like the blood-soaked skin of Armok himself, filled with the superficial scratches of the Carp's doomed prey and the miniscule pinpricks left by the Adamantine Bolt-firing Legendary Marksdwarves who have tried and failed to stop its reign of terror

[KaelGotDwarves]

I just came in here to say that if you cut off a person's arm, wait until they stop bleeding, cut off their other arm, wait until they stop bleeding, cut of their legs while waiting for them to bleed out... if you get lucky they will be just a head, upper, and lower body, much like Monty Python's Black Knight.

[KrataLightblade]

I just came in here to say that if you cut off a person's arm, wait until they stop bleeding, cut off their other arm, wait until they stop bleeding, cut of their legs while waiting for them to bleed out... if you get lucky they will be just a head, upper, and lower body, much like Monty Python's Black Knight.

It's best to have fire on hand to cauterize the stumps, though, or else they'd probably bleed to death from losing one or both of the arms long before they stopped bleeding.

[Kagus]

We're still talking DF here.  If you were to try that on a real person, you'd need a serious IV line and something much hotter than a torch.  They'll lose too much blood from the arterial flow, and if it doesn't seal up properly you could get internal bleeding that will kill them quite quickly.

If you tried that in DF, they'd just bleed and burn to death at the same time.