Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[CrazyEyes]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hi!

I have to disagree with CrazyEyes' statement.

Even without economy, room value is important.

I usually engrave my main dining room/meeting hall all through and get rewarded with happy thoughts about dining in a legendary dining room. This helps keep dwarves motivated and ecstatic, even if their best friend just got turned into carp chow.

In addition, even without economy, the nobles will demand rooms of a certain quality which is again achieved via room value.

So, engraving does have its place in pre-economy fortresses (besides being just cool with all the history and the self-indulgence of some dwarves).

Deathworks

Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't really clear on what I meant.

When I said the room value wasn't important, I was talking about the room value in the monies, in response to Hyndls's (quite accurate) statement of room values being easy to increase without realizing it.

I usually make the distinction between room value (in monies) and room quality, which is how much a particular dwarf would enjoy it.  Guess I forgot to there.

[puke]

Tiles do not have 'sides'.  The entire tile is the wall and the entire tile is engraved.

actually, and totally unintuitively, walls do have sides and engravings do have facings, and due to the way the code works, walls can only have one side engraved at a time. or actually, ever.

Toady posted about it several versions back when someone noticed descrepancies in room values.  since then, totally anal-retintive fortress designers have been making sure rooms dont share walls.

so yeah, Boatmurder was spot-on.

[ToxicFrog]

Tiles do not have 'sides'.  The entire tile is the wall and the entire tile is engraved.

actually, and totally unintuitively, walls do have sides and engravings do have facings, and due to the way the code works, walls can only have one side engraved at a time. or actually, ever.

My own testing bears this out. I dug two long (1x20) bedrooms in microcline, paralleling each other so that they shared a wall. I then gave each one a diorite door and a *tower cap bed*.
Current quality: meager.
Then I locked the door to the north one and told them to smooth the shared wall.
Current quality: modest.
Finally, I instructed them to engrave the shared wall.
Final quality: north one still modest, south one decent.

This is somewhat annoying, and I hope it gets fixed.

[loser]

walls do have sides and engravings do have facings

Well shit.  There's that, aright.

And thank you, Frog, for relating your test.

[Doppel]

So wait, its best to have 2 tile wide walls between bedrooms if you want to up the value? I'm so confused.
About the statues, as a rule i always place them after a room is made, i think that then all tiles are included, also the ones that would normally be blocked off by the statue. (atleast, when i look at the room size it includes them, dunno if actually do get included, would require some testing and i'm too lazy)

[ToxicFrog]

So wait, its best to have 2 tile wide walls between bedrooms if you want to up the value? I'm so confused.

Yes. The reason is that engravings will only contribute value to one side of the wall, so if you have a one-tile-wide wall, best case is that the dwarves will put some engravings on one side and some on the other, and each room will get around half of them. Worst case is that the dwarves obsess over one side and one room gets all of the engravings and the other room gets nothing.
If you have two-tile-wide walls, each tile can be engraved only from inside the room it borders, and consequently the engravings will affect that room.

[LegacyCWAL]

Additionally, having 2-wide walls would still have the benefit of not having their value split between two rooms.  While this, as said, doesn't really matter as far as engravings go (due to engravings being one-sided and all that), it can have an effect when you're just smoothing rooms.

[Nesoo]

I'm a bit late to the party, but...

(After all, I have to set a door to 'internal' before it seems to be considered part of the room.)

I'm not sure about internal/external adding the door to the room or not, as I really don't pay much attention to such things, but AFAIK the intended purpose of setting a door to be internal is to allow the room size to expand beyond it. This allows for such things as adding a "closet" to a bedroom and only needing the one bed to define one room for the "two" rooms...

Err, like this:

╔══╦═╗
║..║Æ║
║..┼.║
║θ.╚═╣
║....┼
╚════╝


╔══╦═╗
║XX║Æ║
║XX┼.║  <- Door set to external
║θX╚═╣
║XXXX┼  <- Door set to external
╚════╝


╔══╦═╗
║XX║X║  <- Æ under the X
║XX┼X║  <- Door set to internal
║θX╚═╣
║XXXX┼  <- Door set to external
╚════╝

[Jay]

I don't believe that they actually have "sides" per se, but however one side gets a deduction because of the shared tiles and the other does not, for whatever reason.

[Star Weaver]

That was the main reason of my doubts. A counter-argument would've been some coding specific to (smoothed) walls so as to make them link with each other properly. A counter-counter-argument was that a contextual code at the moment of drawing the tile would be much simpler.

That's probably also right, regardless of the engravings stuff. In a friendly dark tower in adventure mode, I noticed that the smoothed wall corners alternated betweend different roatations of corner pieces, rather than T's or crosses, depending on which side I last viewed them from. I assmue the draw function in that case is only given the data from the FOV and not memory, and thus can't know to connect them.

[HisMajestyBOB]

I don't believe that they actually have "sides" per se, but however one side gets a deduction because of the shared tiles and the other does not, for whatever reason.

That would be my assumption as well.

[ToxicFrog]

I don't believe that they actually have "sides" per se, but however one side gets a deduction because of the shared tiles and the other does not, for whatever reason.

In that case:
(1) why does the quality of the two rooms increase in lockstep until the engravings are made?
(2) why is it consistently the room on the side the engravings were made from that gets the value increase from them?
Furthermore, as I understand it, "edge" tiles (dark blue Xs) don't get penalties for overlap in the first place - only internal tiles (light blue Xs) do. The idea is to prevent you from putting all your nobles in the same physical room, not penalize you for making rooms next to each other.

[kaypy]

On engraving the whole tile vs one side: Forum Search FTW!:
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=5390.msg69809#msg69809