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[coldstone]

ok guys, i want pictures, or ascii diagrams, or links to df map archive maps that demonstrate your ideas for how a fort should be laid out with EFFICIENCY and HAPPINESS being your main goal. That means rapid movement throughout the fortress, workshop area designs that minimize carrying time/jobs, and room shapes that the average newbie wouldn't realize are downright necessary in order to keep your dwarfs happy and your fortress running so smoothly you're well on your way to getting a king so you can finally pat yourself on the back and say you've defeated Dwarf Fortress. I'm looking for the best, of the best, of the best here guys.

[Phant]

For my money, simply building around a central staircase cant be beat for efficiency. In my current fort nothing is more than 80 or so tiles away from anything else. In some cases this requires periods of non-efficiency(ie making large stockpiles of stone using designated dumping and single tile dumps).

Example: http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-3276-bustgatethegirdle

[Mohreb el Yasim]

i like your trade depots on the down stairs ... if i understand well you use them to liberate manufacturing shops without hauling its products to the main trade tapot ... how do you manege it after that they don't take them back to the stockpiles once place libered? or if i haven't understand it well how do you use them?

[Phant]

i like your trade depots on the down stairs ... if i understand well you use them to liberate manufacturing shops without hauling its products to the main trade tapot ... how do you manege it after that they don't take them back to the stockpiles once place libered? or if i haven't understand it well how do you use them?

Those are shops,  not trade depots.

[Mohreb el Yasim]

aaa i never had them i really want a god forth with economy but my FPS never let it (it is 80 dwarf isn't it ...)
i can help you how to menage small forts but for the bigs no clue ... and it migth be that what you are looking for ...

[coldstone]

yea i dunno, problems with that fort would be 1 no up/down stairs 2 trade depot is outside 3 trade depot is not close to central on the z axis. 4 refuse is in a giant room?? it should be in 1x1 rooms so that miasma does not spread or bother refuse carriers.

i guess you are right about the whole "build around a central staircase" idea though. new players and i admit, myself, focus too much on that first or second level, and this is definately not the efficient way to go. Dig down, keep digging, and dig the rooms as you go. Keeping the width of your fort small, at least at first, is what reduces that distance for carrying as you said.

Good magma area. I do have a question about it: is it best to keep the magma level near the minimum necessary to fire the forge, or is it just as hot and bothersome if its a full 7 magma trench?

[Phant]

yea i dunno, problems with that fort would be 1 no up/down stairs 2 trade depot is outside 3 trade depot is not close to central on the z axis. 4 refuse is in a giant room?? it should be in 1x1 rooms so that miasma does not spread or bother refuse carriers.

i guess you are right about the whole "build around a central staircase" idea though. new players and i admit, myself, focus too much on that first or second level, and this is definately not the efficient way to go. Dig down, keep digging, and dig the rooms as you go. Keeping the width of your fort small, at least at first, is what reduces that distance for carrying as you said.

Good magma area. I do have a question about it: is it best to keep the magma level near the minimum necessary to fire the forge, or is it just as hot and bothersome if its a full 7 magma trench?

Up/down stairs are dangerous, a dwarf takes a tumble down a set of stairs that spans 4-5 z levels and they are likely to get busted up pretty bad.

I dont see what the trouble with the trade depot being outside is, though I tend to build that way so as not to mar the symmetry of the main staircase, as well as providing room for the siege engines.

You can definatly alter the design to have smaller and more numerous levels, I generally determine the size of levels off what nice, symmetrical housing arrangement I conceive. It also gives plenty of room for large stockpiles when nessessary.

As for the magma, It makes no difference as far as I know, except that maintaining the magma level at 4 would require a needlessly complex system.

[coldstone]

woah woah. you're destroying every fort plan ive ever had here Phant. Do you know for a fact that dwarves fall down multiple z levels of stairs?? Have you seen it happen, maybe its been changed by now even??

Trade Depots gotta go inside, in my opinion. Protection from flying enemies and minimize the chance that the huge load of meat and booze you just bought doesnt just spoil right then and there (ive had this happen to me, EVEN THOUGH my depot was inside. I think people stomping on it and not hauling it was part of the problem there. It would be even worse if it was outside, right?).

I dont have a problem with a complex magma system.
Not if it reduces the amount of time our forgers need to spend drinking, thus increasing efficiency, you see?

Does magma disappear or maintain a constant level and exist forever?

[Rusty Mcloon]

I rely on long stairwells of up/down stairs.  I've never noticed a dwarf falling down one.  I imagine they'd wind up at the very bottom, but I haven't seen that happen.  If it is a threat, I'd say it's minimal and negated by the efficiency of having the up/down stairs.

[Hishan]

These are my workshops,
red=workshop
grey=wall
blue=door
2x2 purples=up/down stairs
3x2 purple=a set of ramps letting the wagon down to a stockpile level below.

I love this design, easy to set up and really space efficient, with the added bonus of locking mad dwarves in room option. I know its not efficient to put them all in seperate rooms, but it just feels a lot more natural this way.


These are my fractal inspired bedrooms, you can remove one of the central pods to put a lobby in for up/down stairs if you wish.
Yes I know 2x2 bedrooms arent efficeint, and 2 tile wide corridors arent either, but it looks more natural this way.
 Red=doors, only in the first one i couldnt be bothered to put them in the rest. (numbers are the number of dwarves they accomodate)

[Mohreb el Yasim]

nice designs ... but arten't the last one just too huge? how small squer is in a regional map squar?
just for know how many you can put in 1 z levels ...

[sphr]

I dont see what the trouble with the trade depot being outside is, though I tend to build that way so as not to mar the symmetry of the main staircase, as well as providing room for the siege engines.

Having an inside/underground trade depot has many advantages.  The principal being that you can continue to haul trade goods there even if dwarves are not allowed to go outside.  (I'm assuming here that the whole room can be sealed completely from invaders)  I usually build a ramp down to an underground trading center, best if sealable from both sides by channels and bridges.  It is directly linked to a corridor leading with warehouses with stockpiles for trade goods (those that you don't want to use in your fortress) so that bringing trade goods to depot distance is short. (gobo maps should always have 1 for skull totems, 1 for all the none iron "narrow" stuff.  You'll probably want to seperate out the cave spider silk stuff too so that it is easier to deal with elves.  Yes, they only have cloth.  but even that is better than 100 narrow XXXXXX littering all over your map)

[coldstone]

youre right sphr, i forgot that main reason. hey do YOU have a map to show us? I feel bad for phant with us picking on his fort, and hes the only one showing us his goods so far

Hishan youre right. I dont like your design because it is not efficient, which is what i want to see. In my opinion, living areas do not NEED hallways. Rooms should be grouped around a medium sized staircase which should lead to an exit that puts the dwarves outside in the sun for a short walk to wherever they need to go, thus keeping them healthy and happy.

Best of the best of the best guys.

[Sergius]

Up/down stairs are dangerous, a dwarf takes a tumble down a set of stairs that spans 4-5 z levels and they are likely to get busted up pretty bad.

You can mix up and down stairs next to each other. Personally my central staircase looks like this:

Code: [Select]

#####D#D#####
#     #     #
#   <       #
#   #>  #<  #
D       >   D
##         ##
D   >       D
#  <#  >#   #
#       <   #
#     #     #
#####D#D#####
Each of the 4 stairwells runs clockwise as it goes down, it looks nice, and dwarves rarely get on each other's way. They also have only 1 tile to walk to the next level .

[coldstone]

Sergius your design is even less efficient than Phants.

Stairs should be groups of up/down stairs. You dont want dwaves having to pathfind constantly because theyve only got one place to go. and you certainly dont want them to have to decide to walk over 4 squares to get to a different staircase to continue on their way. Once you hit 80 dwaves or so youve got a giant traffic jam going on right there.

Plus, massive lag.