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[Rusty Mcloon]

I see that many of you like to arrange "accidents" to happen to your nobles.  Plus, in another thread, someone posted the following:

Getting a new Baron/Baroness = horribly lame

Getting a new Dungeon Master = awesome

I pretty much agree.  However, do you think it's worth having nobles in the game for the sake of the challenge they present?  Is there a way to make them worthwhile and less lame, or should Toady just leave 'em as is?  What do you think?

[Kagus]

I think that the only real problem associated with the noble classes is that they're ridiculously demanding.  Once/if mandate handling is sorted out, I don't think people will have much to gripe about.

As it is now though, things are pretty insane.  I posted my opinion on how mandates could be handled somewhere else, but it essentially boiled down to "repeat mandates of consumables.  All other mandates should be treated like requirements, needing only a certain amount".

Basically, a noble can mandate a roast containing his favorite food, or a barrel of his preferred drink.  And he can make that mandate as many times as he likes, as long as he's finished the last batch.  But he's not going to place orders for bronze toy forges for the rest of his life.  If he really likes them that much, he could want five or ten or so on.  Not three hundred.


Work needs to be done on what mandates are made, and who gets punished if they don't.  Other than those problems, I think nobles are just nice flavor to add to a fort, and they give you an excuse to make some really elegant rooms.

[CrazyEyes]

It's also make more sense if elected nobles like the mayor could only mandate something once per term instead of Urist McFisherdwarf being elected and suddenly demanding that someone make a steel statue of her immediately after the five bone crafts and denying export of armor and so on...

That still leaves the more permanent nobles, though.  Maybe is mandates were limited to one mandate per noble per year so you don't have to constantly worry about keeping three important people happy lest your legendary dwarves feel the Hammer...

[Snikers]

But he's not going to place orders for bronze toy forges for the rest of his life.  If he really likes them that much, he could want five or ten or so on.  Not three hundred.

Maybe he plans to fill a vault with them and swim around, like Scrooge McDuck?

On that note, I think nobles would be more bearable if they were just interesting. The Dungeon Master is just as given to insane mandates as any other noble (except the Philosopher of course) but everyone likes him because he can tame strange animals. We need more of things like that.

I'm not even saying super-cool abilities, just a few things the nobles do as hobbies. Maybe your Baroness really loves a good wrestling match and spends half her time sparring in the barracks. Maybe your Duchess Consort has a bleeding heart and has nothing to distract him from retrieving wounded dwarves and providing water as they recover. That King/Queen? He/she is willing to leave their royal life behind for adamantine; maybe they'll have Strand Extraction auto-enabled (and at least you can't train it up beforehand, so (s)he's not stealing the job from anyone more experienced like the Dungeon Master) - or for the real masochist, have the King/Queen auto-mine adamantine, much to the delight of demons.

Right now the only nobles even worth casting a glance at are the Hammerer and the Dungeon Master. We can at least make the others worth watching.

[cowofdoom78963]

I just wish they were more simple in their demands like just wishing for a type of thing like cloth pants or metal toy. Not stuff like 5 platinum flaming toilet seats decorated with hanging rings of shale.

and yes also the one time madate thing.

[Christes]

yay I got quoted

But seriously I wouldn't mind mandates half as much if the consequences for failure weren't so random.

"What no adamantine thong? Let's beat the hell out some random triple legendary dwarf over here." 

[Strangething]

I'm hoping that the War Arc will make nobles more useful. A higher-ranking noble could give you more sway in the mountainhomes.

I agree with Snikers' suggestions. Nobles with skills please.

[sweitx]

Maybe high ranking noble can enable some macro-managing ability?

Dungeon Master is already useful as is (although would be nice to be able to turn off some of his... abilities).  Tax Collector activates economy (I won't say useful... but hey!).  Hammerer may become useful in the future at dealing out death penalty.  Dukes/Duchess, Count/Countess and such could have a job say... taking complaints from dwarves?
"Urist McWhiner complains for lack of bed."
hm... wooden or magma bed, Urist?

[Boatmurderer]

Imagine a random chance of getting the wrong noble type after an "accident". Sure, you may get tremendously unlucky and have 2 hammerers, but imagine 3 or 4 Dungeon Masters?

[Eater of Vermin]

I reckon that the nobles are pretty much OK as they are.  It appears that they do have skills, the trick is to find out what they are and balance them against the nobles quirks.

For example, my current Countess absolutely loves trading.  Every time my assigned Trader was busy doing something else and I hit the panic-button saying "anyone can trade" in the hope that someone, anyone, would catch the traders before their imminent departure...  TaDah!  She immediately rushed to the rescue.  In the end, I reassigned my trader to the military and she looks after all trade now.   And what does she ask for in return?  Cabinets.  And the occasional Gold item.  Both are mandates I'm more than happy to fulfill as they're permanently in the job queue anyway. 

And my Hammerer?  He's a party animal and spends all his time attending parties at the well.  In seven years he hasn't hammered anyone,  'cos he's too busy mingling.  So far my Fortress Guards have gotten to any miscreants first and simply escorted 'em to the cells.  (Mind you, all his predecessors met nasty accidents.  Finding my current Hammerer took some effort...  )

Sure, at first Nobles are a challenge, but execution chambers natural selection soon culls out the worst and they become nothing more than a minor nuisance.

 

[sneakey pete]

I wouldn't mind seeing barons/counts etc, and possibly kings sparring with the royal guards, and perhaps fortress guards. Of course, not in the regular barracks, and not in a way that they get their throat ripped out by the first axe-guard either, but it'd make them seem like less of an ass when they demand stuff then hide inside during sieges.

[ChazzyBurger]

Nobles arn't THAT bad...

Except for the Adamantine ones, they're just a pain in the arse

But you do get some useful ones, Dungeon Master, Hammerer, Tax Collecter, and everyone seems to miss the most important one!

The Record Keeper!

I mean, you just take advantage of the fact you konw how much food and drink you have.

That's why the Record Keeper is one of the best treated nobles in my fort

E.G, he doesn't have a death-trap in his room

[Boatmurderer]

I don't consider the assignable positions as "Nobility"; they're more along the lines of "Middle-management". Especially considering that most of the time, that's not their main gig. It's like there's a miner who occasionally brokers with the caravans; an Engraver that will assign tasks. A farmer who works the books. That sort of thing.

[JujuBubu]

Actually My Trader/Record Keeper/Manager is one person who does nothing else,
so he is available for trading ( except when sleeping )

After carfull looking at the likes and dislikes of the little bugger, he spends his free time making friends
and social skills, to be voted mayor
This is one possible noble to dodge the senseless demands bullet