Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dame de la Licorne]

Othob Rithol, considering that Toady seems to be addressing some of the things mentioned in this thread (namely, the repopulation of subterranean creatures), are you planning on adding something to the relevant entries in the first post along the lines of "this has now been (added/dealt with) (not at all/partially/completely)"?  Seems like it might be a good idea, and will help keep the thread up-to-date as suggestions are added or become obsolete (for whatever reason).

[Footkerchief]

I've been tinkering with the idea of abandoning UD when the new version comes out, and instead running one solely on worldgen formations (as in terrain, rivers, building placements etc). That would likely include a serious overlap with an above-ground diversity list.

[SirHoneyBadger]

It's really not a bad idea, objectively, but I hope Othob Rithol will atleast ask Barbarossa the Seal God how he feels about it. It doesn't really seem fair to create something that will so obviously take away from the closest thing UD has to real competition, when both posts are useful generators of separate ideas.

Yes, the two concepts might work together more smoothly than apart, and allow for the better development of "meta-ideas", but there's something to be said for having two "camps", each with a slightly different outlook.

What I'd really like to see is a thread devoted to mythological/supernatural/magical, and just unearthly, geography, that might occur in a fantasy world. That holds a lot of interest for me, and I think it would be helped by a great deal of "ironing out" and balancing (of opinions) in a major thread. If someone wanted to do that, I would fully support it.

[Little]

I got one for you;

Heaven.


After all, dwarves are creatures of the earth, it would make sense that any afterlife they believe in (unless they worship the god of the sky I suppose) would be deep underground. This would also explain in part why the demons were chained beneath the earth; as the saying goes, keep your friends close, your tentacle demons closer.

In game, this would basically result in another form of the glowing pits, but rather than being surrounded by adamantium, the interior would be filled with some sort of wondorous (read expensive) material.

Opening the pearly gates would have no negative effect initially, but if you decided to grab the treasure, all hell (in a manner of speaking) would break loose. Leaving the pits open and unpillaged (or maybe, removing the guardians) however, would allow the dwarves to interact with their deceased. E.g. those that lost their loved ones would get happy thoughts, something like "Urist has been comforted by his mother's spirit lately", whereas deceased grudges would yield "Urist was haunted by his old foe recently".

I hate to bring up an old point, but I had a really good idea(I hope).

What about for dwarves who have had friends/family die, they could recieve a big happiness bonus. The rest of the fort would receive a mediumish happy bonus, with the exception of those whose enemies are dead(then they get negative thoughts).

As time goes on, the dwarves who were friends with someone who died spend more and more time at the 'veil', talking with their deceased loved one. Bigger and bigger happiness bonuses result, with the dwarf working faster. Your happy with this until one day, you notice Urist the miner isn't there! You search around for him and finally find him in 'heaven'. Dwarves who have happy memories of lost loved ones/friends should become eager to join them, until they eventually cross the veil and live with them forever.

Walling off heaven would result in a negative thought roughly equal to the happiness bonus the dwarves were receiving, with potential of dwarves who were close to joining their loved ones comitting suicide.

[Guy Montag]

I thought it might be interesting to include a "heaven" and angelic type beings to the game to balance out the glowing pits we have now, but not even the latter is really fleshed out all that well.

HFS Spoliers, as if nobody hasn't had it spoiled already...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nobody is really even sure why the hell there are tons of living sentients down there being tourtured in the adamantine pits anyways. Also the elves, dwarves and humans in the pits commit suicide or DIE of thrist. They die AGAIN? How does that work exactly? They die and go to hell... under some other mountain? Which makes me think the HFS folks and the place they reside is not so much a "hell" in terms of an afterlife, but something else. There isn't any answer as to why there are demons in the depths or the relationship between adamantine and the pits anyways. I don't really buy the "adamantine sealed in the demons" thing either. They are not even surrounded by it, adamantine isn't that difficult to mine out of, and they have engravings and even staircases dug into the stuff, so I don't get it.

Maybe off-topic but certainly the underworld and its deizens could be balanced out by a heaven sort of place, perhaps on the tops of the inaccessible mountain peaks like Mt. Olympus filled with God-like supernaturals, like Titans were in mythology.

If there was some underground heaven place, most players would be compelled to kill off its deizens, annex the place, engrave pictures of cheese and squares everywhere and add it to their fortress value, and exploit and profit from it however they can, like they do other features in the game. You'd have a bunch of threads pop up like "Whats the best trap system to kill the angels? They have such valuable bones, and I'm building a tower out of angel-tallow soap"

[SirHoneyBadger]

I believe we're getting a major HFS update in the next release, so that might answer some of those questions, or just render them obsolete.

As far as death in DF is concerned: I definitely would like something mythological (there's that word again), with dead dwarfs, etc, simply making a transition to another "world"/plane of existence, with the possibility (epic) of someday returning/reincarnating?

As they die, or are killed, in each "world", they could be reborn in whole, healthy bodies, in the next "world", unless somehow soul-trapped. 

[Guy Montag]

I think the new HFS mentioned is going to be human zombie-filled ruins (most likely) and those big cavern systems Toady posted that are going to be filled with (i'm assuming) infinite populations of the same ol' chasm creatures we know and love that wonder in from the map edges as a sort of adaptation of the old 2d version's chasm.

More bones for my bonecarver and more bolts for my marksdwarves is the end result of infinite chasm creatures, which is always a good thing.

I suppose once the magic arc is set up I can see Adv mode excursions into the afterworld but I'm not sure how it could be implimented well in Fortress mode.

Some mythological sort of place on the highest mountain peaks would be a nice Valhalla for Dwarves to go when they die in your failed mega projects, but then again, I think that would be a fairly low priority to impliment since you are not supposed to be able to embark there and traveling there by adv mode is nigh impossible.

I'm sure the developer has interesting stuff planned for his ideas with mythological and religious spheres and what have you.

[Silverionmox]

I thought it might be interesting to include a "heaven" and angelic type beings to the game to balance out the glowing pits we have now, but not even the latter is really fleshed out all that well.

HFS Spoliers, as if nobody hasn't had it spoiled already...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nobody is really even sure why the hell there are tons of living sentients down there being tourtured in the adamantine pits anyways. Also the elves, dwarves and humans in the pits commit suicide or DIE of thrist. They die AGAIN? How does that work exactly? They die and go to hell... under some other mountain? Which makes me think the HFS folks and the place they reside is not so much a "hell" in terms of an afterlife, but something else. There isn't any answer as to why there are demons in the depths or the relationship between adamantine and the pits anyways. I don't really buy the "adamantine sealed in the demons" thing either. They are not even surrounded by it, adamantine isn't that difficult to mine out of, and they have engravings and even staircases dug into the stuff, so I don't get it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Personally I think a somewhat consistent explanation is that the demons in question have an outpost from the demonic underworld (which is where the glowing pit leads to) and they use it as a base of operations from which to capture and torture sentients (for art! for science! for the love of god!). They're demons, so their sense of time is a little different, and geological processes make sure their hideout is slowly encased in rock. The adamantine is formed by pure fear and horror reacting with the rock. As soon as your dwarves breach the cavern, the demons take offense at the disturbance and attack.
So demon outposts actually might pop up during play, and then demons could abduct some sentients from the nearest settlements. At which point you'll have the choice: rescue them and relieve the dwarves of their permanent unhappy thought, or wait a few centuries until some adamantine is ready?

[Guy Montag]

I thought it might be interesting to include a "heaven" and angelic type beings to the game to balance out the glowing pits we have now, but not even the latter is really fleshed out all that well.

HFS Spoliers, as if nobody hasn't had it spoiled already...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nobody is really even sure why the hell there are tons of living sentients down there being tourtured in the adamantine pits anyways. Also the elves, dwarves and humans in the pits commit suicide or DIE of thrist. They die AGAIN? How does that work exactly? They die and go to hell... under some other mountain? Which makes me think the HFS folks and the place they reside is not so much a "hell" in terms of an afterlife, but something else. There isn't any answer as to why there are demons in the depths or the relationship between adamantine and the pits anyways. I don't really buy the "adamantine sealed in the demons" thing either. They are not even surrounded by it, adamantine isn't that difficult to mine out of, and they have engravings and even staircases dug into the stuff, so I don't get it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Personally I think a somewhat consistent explanation is that the demons in question have an outpost from the demonic underworld (which is where the glowing pit leads to) and they use it as a base of operations from which to capture and torture sentients (for art! for science! for the love of god!). They're demons, so their sense of time is a little different, and geological processes make sure their hideout is slowly encased in rock. The adamantine is formed by pure fear and horror reacting with the rock. As soon as your dwarves breach the cavern, the demons take offense at the disturbance and attack.
So demon outposts actually might pop up during play, and then demons could abduct some sentients from the nearest settlements. At which point you'll have the choice: rescue them and relieve the dwarves of their permanent unhappy thought, or wait a few centuries until some adamantine is ready?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I rather like that, explaination and was pretty much what I was thinking too. Adamantine is just the result of their spooky demon magic/ supernatural influence (it radiates out in a neat pattern, like electricity through the z-levels) and the humanoids down there are just hapless victims that were somehow captured, tricked, or brain-washed cultists that were teleported down there. Goblin forts have demon overlords, maybe the Goblins collect some of those slaves for sacrifices to their demon buddies. Maybe even supply them with those nice silver and iron cages? Yeah, I don't think the demons are really released like thats their prison, but rather you rudely smashed a hole in their house in the middle of their rape party and its all just a sudden, pleasant suprise for them. Right up untill you are making trinkets out of their skulls and dumping your garbage down into their homeland, I suppose.

[Techhead]

Spoiler: General concept (click to show/hide)

I think it would be nice if each sphere had its own demon, and each pit had a god associated with it. When breached, it will release demons relating to the corresponding god's spheres. We already have three demons that can be correlated with fire, rivers, and depravity. Not all of the spheres need tp have demons, some can be based off generic models, and some of them can share.

Spoiler: Specific HFS ideas (click to show/hide)

AGRICULTURE
ANIMALS
ART
BALANCE
BEAUTY
BIRTH
BLIGHT
BOUNDARIES
CAVERNS
CHAOS
CHARITY
CHILDREN
COASTS
CONSOLATION
COURAGE
CRAFTS
CREATION
DANCE
DARKNESS - Dark Shadow
DAWN
DAY
DEATH - Dark Reaper
DEFORMITY
DEPRAVITY - Tentacle Demon
DISCIPLINE
DISEASE - Plague Demon
DREAMS
DUSK
DUTY - Vanguard Soldier
EARTH - Spirit of Earth
FAMILY
FAME
FATE
FERTILITY
FESTIVALS
FIRE - Spirit of Fire
FISH - Blood Carp
FISHING
FOOD
FORGIVENESS
FORTRESSES
FREEDOM
GAMBLING
GAMES
GENEROSITY
HAPPINESS
HEALING
HOSPITALITY
HUNTING
INSPIRATION
JEALOUSY
JEWELS - Crystal Golem
JUSTICE - Justice Soldier
LABOR
LAKES
LAWS - Lawful Soldier
LIES
LIGHT
LIGHTNING - Spirit of lightning
LONGEVITY
LOVE
LOYALTY - Loyal Soldier
LUCK - Dark Leprechaun
LUST - Succubus
MARRIAGE
MERCY
METALS - Steel Golem
MINERALS - Rock Golem
MISERY
MIST
MOON
MOUNTAINS - Earth Golem
MUCK - Mud Golem
MURDER
MUSIC
NATURE
NIGHT
NIGHTMARES
OATHS
OCEANS
ORDER
PAINTING
PEACE
PERSUASION
PLANTS - Dark Dryad
POETRY
PREGNANCY
RAIN
RAINBOWS
REBIRTH
REVELRY
REVENGE - Vengeance Soldier
RIVERS - Frog Demon
RULERSHIP
RUMOR
SACRIFICE
SALT
SCHOLARSHIP
SEASONS
SILENCE
SKY
SONG
SPEECH
STARS
STORMS
STRENGTH
SUICIDE
SUN
THEFT
THRALLDOM
THUNDER
TORTURE
TRADE
TRAVELERS
TREACHERY
TREES - Dire Treant
TRICKERY
TRUTH
TWILIGHT
VALOR - Valiant Soldier
VICTORY
VOLCANOES - Magma Giant
WAR
WATER - Spirit of Water
WEALTH - Gold Golem
WEATHER - Storm Lord
WIND - Spirit of Air
WISDOM
WRITING
YOUTH

[Aldaris]

I believe we're getting a major HFS update in the next release, so that might answer some of those questions, or just render them obsolete.

As far as death in DF is concerned: I definitely would like something mythological (there's that word again), with dead dwarfs, etc, simply making a transition to another "world"/plane of existence, with the possibility (epic) of someday returning/reincarnating?

As they die, or are killed, in each "world", they could be reborn in whole, healthy bodies, in the next "world", unless somehow soul-trapped. 

So, hypothetically, it would be possible for a dwarf, letīs call himm Agrajag, to arrive in one of your forts in one world, get violently murdered because you were doing a hermit challenge, then be reborn in antoehr, and get used as cannon fodder to keep a tentacle demon busy, and then be reborn into your underocean fort, and die in flooding once that skeletal shark bashes a hole in one of the windows...

I approve.

[ThtblovesDF]

I would enjoy running or bumping into a giant-ant-hive with a Queen in its middle, maybe even with a own food supply (some mushroom i guess) witch you can take out or steal to lure them into traps. Would also be nice if they donīt just "blindly" charge at you, but instead only attack when you enter there territory or if they have to much units.

[praguepride]

I really like the different HFS depending on what's inside.

Maybe make it so that it's not always adamantine. Maybe make it so that the "wealth HFS" is surrounded by gold and platinum veins...

[Silverionmox]

Spoiler: General concept (click to show/hide)

I think it would be nice if each sphere had its own demon, and each pit had a god associated with it. When breached, it will release demons relating to the corresponding god's spheres. We already have three demons that can be correlated with fire, rivers, and depravity. Not all of the spheres need tp have demons, some can be based off generic models, and some of them can share.

Spoiler: Specific HFS ideas (click to show/hide)

AGRICULTURE
ANIMALS
ART
BALANCE
BEAUTY
BIRTH
BLIGHT
BOUNDARIES
CAVERNS
CHAOS
CHARITY
CHILDREN
COASTS
CONSOLATION
COURAGE
CRAFTS
CREATION
DANCE
DARKNESS - Dark Shadow
DAWN
DAY
DEATH - Dark Reaper
DEFORMITY
DEPRAVITY - Tentacle Demon
DISCIPLINE
DISEASE - Plague Demon
DREAMS
DUSK
DUTY - Vanguard Soldier
EARTH - Spirit of Earth
FAMILY
FAME
FATE
FERTILITY
FESTIVALS
FIRE - Spirit of Fire
FISH - Blood Carp
FISHING
FOOD
FORGIVENESS
FORTRESSES
FREEDOM
GAMBLING
GAMES
GENEROSITY
HAPPINESS
HEALING
HOSPITALITY
HUNTING
INSPIRATION
JEALOUSY
JEWELS - Crystal Golem
JUSTICE - Justice Soldier
LABOR
LAKES
LAWS - Lawful Soldier
LIES
LIGHT
LIGHTNING - Spirit of lightning
LONGEVITY
LOVE
LOYALTY - Loyal Soldier
LUCK - Dark Leprechaun
LUST - Succubus
MARRIAGE
MERCY
METALS - Steel Golem
MINERALS - Rock Golem
MISERY
MIST
MOON
MOUNTAINS - Earth Golem
MUCK - Mud Golem
MURDER
MUSIC
NATURE
NIGHT
NIGHTMARES
OATHS
OCEANS
ORDER
PAINTING
PEACE
PERSUASION
PLANTS - Dark Dryad
POETRY
PREGNANCY
RAIN
RAINBOWS
REBIRTH
REVELRY
REVENGE - Vengeance Soldier
RIVERS - Frog Demon
RULERSHIP
RUMOR
SACRIFICE
SALT
SCHOLARSHIP
SEASONS
SILENCE
SKY
SONG
SPEECH
STARS
STORMS
STRENGTH
SUICIDE
SUN
THEFT
THRALLDOM
THUNDER
TORTURE
TRADE
TRAVELERS
TREACHERY
TREES - Dire Treant
TRICKERY
TRUTH
TWILIGHT
VALOR - Valiant Soldier
VICTORY
VOLCANOES - Magma Giant
WAR
WATER - Spirit of Water
WEALTH - Gold Golem
WEATHER - Storm Lord
WIND - Spirit of Air
WISDOM
WRITING
YOUTH

Not to disparage your efforts, but let's not turn this into an easter egg hunt. Why would these gods all put some stuff and creatures in airtight bubbles in random mountains?

[SirHoneyBadger]

Maybe, at the beginning of the game, there aren't any gods? Maybe they've all been userped and trapped underground by some avatar of Apathy, and our dwarfs--the souls of determination and perfectionism--are the ones chosen to free them from their earthly cages.

The HFS might exist as tormenters of the fallen gods.

Once the HFS is unlocked, and the god inside freed, Religion could open up.