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[zagibu]

If anything ore deposits should be bigger and made 3d. Much like how the HFS is now with branching tendrils that span multiple Z levels.

If ore deposits are made bigger, they should also be changed in other ways, because one native gold vein is currently enough to buy whole caravans for multiple years.

[Osmosis Jones]

If ore deposits are made bigger, they should also be changed in other ways, because one native gold vein is currently enough to buy whole caravans for multiple years.

One gold vein was enough to cause entire goldrushes in the real world.

[Duke 2.0]

If ore deposits are made bigger, they should also be changed in other ways, because one native gold vein is currently enough to buy whole caravans for multiple years.

One gold vein was enough to cause entire goldrushes in the real world.

 Gold veins are enough to cause multiple cities to survive in luxury for around a decade.

[Othob Rithol]

increasing the amount of ore available starts treading into the game balance issues. My opinion is that they should be 3D, but if they are to be longer, they must be narrower. Or Toady could go the other way and make bigger veins altogether, but would then have to decrease their frequency. My current fort has 320 gold bars smelted, about 40 gold ore visible but unmined, and probably about 200-300 left just in the 7 or so veins I have hardly touched. This fort is a fluke : 5x5 and I have way too many ore veins. I even found 2...2!... native platinum VEINS. Not to mention the 1000 or so nickel I have used training my blacksmith, the 3 magnetite clusters I have found so far, and the 4 large veins of coal. Gotta love sites where flux meets volcano.

No matter what he does, how the vein is shaped (in 3D) would increase the interesting aspects of the underground...which is our goal. It also is something he could probably do under the current dev time table.

[Dae]

I think maybe you could get an announcement: _____ vein continues higher (or lower). But that seems really gamey. Any ideas?

Let's just reveal the ones that are below/above the end of the vein on wanted z-level. just like it currently does but in 3D : when a tile is mined out, reveal next. Of course, this would work only for veins.

[Granite26]

why only for veins?  I'd like to see what's above and below.  I'd also like damp and warm to penetrate.  (I can't quantify the level of frustration I get from not being able to dig out under a lake without designating every square as it's revealed despite KNOWING it was damp when I designated.  Same with digging around the magma flow.)

[Idiom]

Sorry to derail, but I just realized this and it is too small for it's own thread, but is related to the topic.

Back in the 2D version, the cliff-face was partly eroded. The first couple tiles were 'partially mined' due to erosion. I suggest it is re-implemented, partly for the sake of realism, partly for the sake of nostalgia.

II should think it would be most evident along river banks, lining cave rivers, and up steep cliffs.

[Dae]

why only for veins?  I'd like to see what's above and below.  I'd also like damp and warm to penetrate.

I'd like too, but the way we want it requires more changes to the process of mining out a tile. More, as it is now I suspect that every tile would be revealed one z-level below the surface all around the map, which wouldn't be good (I suppose the game tracks everything that is accessible while instancing the map or a newly reached z-level and reveals everything around that tile. Here there would be a need for two different revealing methods - one on loading the map and one on mining that would reveal above and below).

I also thought of something about underground features being discovered while you haven't entered them yet, and it'd require changes too.

But now that I think more, it could work this way : if you mine just one level above a chasm (I mean you haven't breached into it yet), it would reveal only the tiles below your tunnel and show them as empty (miners would've heard it sounded different and understood there was something).
Less changes would let you see whatever is in, more changes would require a new type of tile, with a sort of fog of war.

Also, you could have another degree in damp and warm : the stone directly next to a feature should be extremely wet/hot, almost dropping/melting. There could be an option to remove designation only on "dangerously damp/warm stone", but for more balance and fun in the game it shoudl be decided upon the miner skill.
This way either it works as it does now or you trust your dwarves.
Well, with that last sentence it sounds stupid.

Anyway, let's stop it here now, it's off topic. Someone can copy/paste the quote and start another topic if he/she finds the suggestion relevant.

[zagibu]

If ore deposits are made bigger, they should also be changed in other ways, because one native gold vein is currently enough to buy whole caravans for multiple years.

One gold vein was enough to cause entire goldrushes in the real world.

 Gold veins are enough to cause multiple cities to survive in luxury for around a decade.

Yeah, but a game is not an exact representation of the world. A game has to provide fun, and it obviously wouldn't be much fun if ore veins were similarly rare as in the real world (I never played a fort that didn't have gold, so maybe they could be made a bit rarer...like half as frequent, or 4 times less frequent...but not 10 times). So it has to be balanced otherwise. Maybe make gold nuggets yield only a fraction of a gold bar, so that you need several nuggets to smelt one bar. Or make the viens thinner, so that not even all tiles are connected.

[Grand_Marquis]

why only for veins?  I'd like to see what's above and below.  I'd also like damp and warm to penetrate.

I'd like too, but the way we want it requires more changes to the process of mining out a tile. More, as it is now I suspect that every tile would be revealed one z-level below the surface all around the map, which wouldn't be good (I suppose the game tracks everything that is accessible while instancing the map or a newly reached z-level and reveals everything around that tile. Here there would be a need for two different revealing methods - one on loading the map and one on mining that would reveal above and below).

Well that's part of one of the big future obstacles DF is going to eventually encounter.  Namely, that individual tiles have no definable size - they are essentially infinite.  Until a method is designed by which DF can measure the six borders of a given tile (cardinal walls, floor, ceiling.  Ten if you include the corners), there won't be any good way to do this.  Right now, tiles don't have walls.  The walls exist one tile over, take up the entire tile, and are noneuclidian one-sided mobius strips.  This sort of goes along with the whole engraving problem, but that's off-topic also.

The point is, it's a good suggestion, but it isn't a realistic fix until the underlying problem is delt with.

[Tamren]

This is one reason we need some sort of prospecting skill. For tiles above and below mined out spaces you could have the prospector come along and drill core samples or something. This would tell you what is above and below that tile. For tiles that you can't actually reach you can have the prospector make a best guess estimate to give you some idea of what is out there.

For ore veins, one BIG factor that is not taken into account is yield. We currently get one bar of gold per unit of stone, same with diamonds and other stuff. In real life it can take 20 tons of stone to yield one flawed diamond. The yield of gold within stones should vary, same with gems and all the other metals. This would also allow for alternate methods of gathering resources. You could for example pan for gold in surface and presumably underground rivers as well.

Plus the size of the ore veins should be increased. A whole fricken ORE VEIN of gold is reason enough to build an entire city and dig a massive strip mine just to mine it out in the real world. Such deposits are far larger than the ones we have in DF, which seem to be "far too small".

Gigantic veins of precious metals would rather unbalance the game. It would make sense to have absolutely massive deposits of iron, copper and the like which should be cheaper because of how common they are. But we should probably limit the size of precious metal deposits. Or as mentioned before, limit the yield and modify the size.

[Ralje]

Just throwing a suggestion out here:
Special rooms containing artifacts, but also sneaky traps or monsters.

For example:
This room leads to a artifact golden sword, but one of the doors is trapped.
Choosing the wrong door opens the floor hatch below the dwarf to activate, making him fall to his death.

[Tamren]

Sort of like forgotted tombs? Randomized stuff like that would be fun. It would be like caves in adventure mode but worked by tools instead of naturally formed.

It would be almost mandatory if the whole "underdark" thing was implemented.

[Othob Rithol]

I'm adding a little to the Buried Ruins entry specifically for the adventurer (artifacts, trap rooms)
And I'll be reworking the cave-ins entry to link into and reflect this thread


I don't think the one dimensional aspects of a tile really affect ore finding in quite the same ways as it does engraving. The real problem for ore is the existence of the floor. If ore veins did not generate floor tiles, then we would clearly see the tops of the lower z-level rock (which would provide a "floor" much like a built wall does) as well as see up into a vein above (since it does not have a floor tile to obstruct seeing it). Even this however, appears to be a rather massive departure from how things work right now. I have no idea, but doubt, if built walls and natural rock are stored the same way.

Anything that universally exposes tiles above and below will see massive opposition from aesthetics.

[Faces of Mu]

This may have been suggested before, BUT!!

It'd be nice if both water and magma underground might have special properties that changed the organisms or rock that it came in contact with. You might know it is special because of how it is lined with gems or engraved rock. Until the health system is programmed properly, such a water source, if lucky enough to be found, could be a nice healing salve for our injured.