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Author Topic: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals  (Read 13620 times)

Jackrabbit

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Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« on: August 04, 2008, 04:00:04 am »

well, not really but i did feel like a bit of a dick when i tunneled under a goblin tower and collapsed it only to discover when i attacked the other tower (there were 3) that the goblins were friendly! it this normal because i feel like a dick. there is a goblin bleeding to death from lopped off arms and legs (unconscious, thankfully) and i want to make amends. not really but i want to hear you opinion.
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CrazyEyes

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 04:11:44 am »

**** happens.

Hell, the elves are friendly too, but that doesn't stop half of us from seizing all their goods then killing them for the hell of it.  ;D
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Deathworks

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2008, 05:05:07 am »

Hi!

Well, the friendly site civs is a known "issue". As far as I know, if you create a fortress at the location of another settlement, the inhabitants of that settlement will automatically be friendly towards your settlers. However, that does not change their political attitudes towards the caravan civs.

Deathworks
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Lalandrathon

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2008, 08:20:49 am »

Yeah I recently tried to invade an elven town of a civ I was at war with with 7 military dwarves and a bunch of war dogs. The occupants just stood around and acted friendly >.<

(I still collapsed their stupid town)
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WCG

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2008, 09:01:49 am »

well, not really but i did feel like a bit of a dick when i tunneled under a goblin tower and collapsed it only to discover when i attacked the other tower (there were 3) that the goblins were friendly!

Heh, heh. That's one of the (many) things I like about this game. I like to play it straight, as realistic as possible, so yeah, I'd feel like a dick, too.

And there might be 'better' ways to 'win' the game, but I like to avoid things that don't make sense. If I want a skylight, I'll make it of glass, not stone (if I can get glass at all). Stone might work just as well in the game, but that's just something that hasn't been fixed yet. And I don't murder the caravans, because I'm trying to create a great fortress here, not a nest of bandits and thieves.

Although, I will butcher kittens when they get too numerous. Some things just have to be done. :)

Bill
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Retales

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2008, 09:32:30 am »

You might feel like you're doing bad things, but sooner or later you'll go past the point where your 'necessary' evil actions turn into cruelty and not even notice it!

I noticed I had gone past that point when I was rigging spears to the bottom of my drowning chamber, only to get to stab the goblin prisoners before they drown and to make them bleed into the flooding water....


man..... :-\
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And so, little dwarfling if to mayor you rise
never forget to heed this advice
when it's items outdoors, no matter how small
remember remember to forbid them all.
GENERATION 31:
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LegacyCWAL

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2008, 12:09:49 pm »

And I don't murder the caravans, because I'm trying to create a great fortress here, not a nest of bandits and thieves.
The Human and Dwarf caravans are worth keeping around, sure, but it's the Elves who are the bandits and thieves!  They zerg their enemies to death, eat the corpses, and then expect you to trade three horseloads of high-quality platinum goods in exchange for a couple boxes of cloth (and crappy cloth at that!) and a single Wild Strawberries [5]!  I say kill 'em, and let the Elfalisks come!

...just make sure you have five hundred traps ready for when they do.
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Mondark

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2008, 12:22:51 pm »

Honestly, I think the fact that people (including myself, sometimes) feel bad (and/or justified) for doing certain actions in the game is one of the neat things about DF.  It's ability to create stories and get players so emotionally involved in the game is unlike any other game I've ever seen.  Just reading the little world gen stories about the human guard who saw his wife and kids get killed by goblins, and then went adventuring and personally killed the leader of the dark tower, before dying of a mortal wound, is so incredible it's hard to believe that this was all made by one guy.

"When you wake up in the morning, praise Toady!"
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Fefeshnelmargalip

Slappy Moose

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2008, 04:58:55 pm »

Hell, the elves are friendly too

No, elves are dicks. That's why they stay at the bottom of my garbage pit until I decide to kill them.
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Kishmond

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2008, 05:39:10 pm »

You're supposed to feel bad when killing random creatures that cannot possibly harm you?

Well, I've been doing it wrong.

Frelock

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2008, 07:29:19 pm »

I've been at war with the goblins so long, I don't think I could ever feel sympathy for them, no matter how peaceful they seem to be.  I say, kill them all!

I once went on a rampage in adventure mode and killed the mayor (he didn't pay me!) and his wife in front of his kid, and then proceeded to break every limb in the child's body, and finally gouge out his eyes.  The child didn't die, though when I came back as another adventurer, poor kid still fell unconscious all the time due to the missing eyes.

I think I may be ahead of you in the line to hell, my friend.
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Joseph Miles

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2008, 07:33:45 pm »

People kill their own dwarves for fun(Well, at least *I* do) so I don't see killing those who are actually an enemy to the dwarven race as immoral ;D
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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 03:17:43 am »

I just killed my first dwarf today (deliberately, anyway) and that wasn't fun. He was a tax collector that liked adamantium in a non-adamantium-bearing region and he was having my metalcrafter repeatedly hammered for failing to produce some, so I really don't feel that bad about it, but I still tried to do it in as businesslike a manner as possible. Unfortunately, never having done this before, the spear trap I set up to get him with only wounded him. With yet another mandate winding down and the metalcrafter unconscious with a mangled leg already, all I could think of was to lock the tax collector's room and let him die of thirst. Ick.

On the other hand, I'm not nearly so sympathetic to goblins. I figure if they're going to start the fight on their initiative, coming to my land to murder my workers and kidnap my children, they should be prepared to accept me going all Vlad the Impaler on them. I'd love to be able to construct skull totems as furnishings, I'd line the roads with 'em as a way to show the goblins the score.

Elves are an interesting middle ground for me right now. They don't do anything nasty to my dwarves directly, they're just tremendously annoying. But now that I'm paying more attention to worldgen, seeing all those ruined cities on the map that the elves have eaten their way through, I find myself wanting to pick a fight. Even so, I'd like it to be a 'civilized' war (as much as it can be). I just spent a lot of effort caging the elven ambassador rather than killing him because I hope to release him once the war's over, for example. (I know I can't 'really' do that, he promptly went berserk in the cage, but it's a game so play along :)
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erendor

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2008, 04:08:39 am »

I just killed my first dwarf today (deliberately, anyway) and that wasn't fun. He was a tax collector that liked adamantium in a non-adamantium-bearing region and he was having my metalcrafter repeatedly hammered for failing to produce some, so I really don't feel that bad about it, but I still tried to do it in as businesslike a manner as possible. Unfortunately, never having done this before, the spear trap I set up to get him with only wounded him. With yet another mandate winding down and the metalcrafter unconscious with a mangled leg already, all I could think of was to lock the tax collector's room and let him die of thirst. Ick.

On the other hand, I'm not nearly so sympathetic to goblins. I figure if they're going to start the fight on their initiative, coming to my land to murder my workers and kidnap my children, they should be prepared to accept me going all Vlad the Impaler on them. I'd love to be able to construct skull totems as furnishings, I'd line the roads with 'em as a way to show the goblins the score.

Elves are an interesting middle ground for me right now. They don't do anything nasty to my dwarves directly, they're just tremendously annoying. But now that I'm paying more attention to worldgen, seeing all those ruined cities on the map that the elves have eaten their way through, I find myself wanting to pick a fight. Even so, I'd like it to be a 'civilized' war (as much as it can be). I just spent a lot of effort caging the elven ambassador rather than killing him because I hope to release him once the war's over, for example. (I know I can't 'really' do that, he promptly went berserk in the cage, but it's a game so play along :)

You could try putting two totem-only stockpiles along the side of your road (or however many you need) and not allowing them any bins, so they get put one per square...
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Now i just feel bad: problems with morals
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2008, 04:36:25 am »

yea i phrased it wrong. i feel a bit bad when i wound someone without killing him outright (like an eyeless goblin with no hand) and have problems with kitten splatting but i am still gonna collapse your stupid tower, if only because it blocks my view oh and
Hell, the elves are friendly too
No, elves are dicks. That's why they stay at the bottom of my garbage pit until I decide to kill them.
The elves are brutal monsters with no respect for human life and way to many fucking cloths! i don't need these cloths give me an anvil or something you stupid tree huggers! which is why i line the rim of my trade depot with spike traps.
oh and someone mentioned killing whoever issued those stupid mandates. yeah i set up a system to flood the mayors office at whim. didn't work.
Guess what i just fucking did i just fucking flooded my fortress! losing is fun!
so that didn't work out very well
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