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Author Topic: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives  (Read 1407 times)

K

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Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« on: August 01, 2008, 11:34:35 pm »

Im Wondering What People Use For Fortress Defecne When The Caravan Arives, Incase Any Evils Follow The Caravan. Heres My Idea
Code: [Select]
               ^
               |
          Dining Room   
             ║    ║
             ║XXXX║
   ══════════╝    ╚════════
                      █
<-Trade Depo     ☺    █ Outside World ->
                      █
   ══════════╗    ╔════════
             ║XXXX║
             ║   ó║
       Underground Entrance
           & Bedrooms
               |
               V

█ = Open Floodgate
X = Closed Floodgate
ó = Lever
☺ = Caravan
Leave The Floodgates To The Outside World Closed Untill The Caravan Arrives, Then Pull The Leaver And Close The Fortress Down Temporarily, Once The Caravan Is In And Has Stopped Re-Open The Fortress.
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Joseph Miles

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2008, 12:07:45 am »

The problem is, the wagons won't come because the gates are closed before the caravan gets there.
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userpay

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2008, 12:10:30 am »

Umm have you accually done that? An easier way is an airlock thing which can also posibly double as a tower. Its like
  CCCCCCCCCCCCC
  CWWWWWWW
HHH   TTTT    HHH
HHH   TTTT    HHH
HHH   TTTT    HHH
  CWWWWWWW
  CCCCCCCCCCCCC
H= bridge
T= depot
C=channel
W=wall
This can easily turn into a tower with fortifications, the channel should probably be bigger though. Have the bridges linked to separat levers. Leave outside bridge down and inside bridge up for depot access and keeping your dwarves inside and safe, when caravan gets there reverse it and mov stuff to trade. Just make sure when your done trading all your dwarves are inside before reversing again and leaving the caravan to their own devices. If you want I can provide screenshot of my airlock.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 12:12:36 am by userpay »
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Bryan Derksen

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2008, 12:12:03 am »

I'm not entirely sure I understand your diagram, but the basic idea seems to be what's commonly used. At least, it's what I often do.

If you want to get more sophisticated and proactive about dealing with ambushes, though, you may want to add a second "goblin entrance" that you open up when the caravan's inside and the "trade entrance" is closed. As long as there's a path from the outside world to your dwarfs goblins will follow it, and you can use this to your advantage by making the goblin entrance long and twisty and filled with traps and sniping points. It can also provide a lifesaving entrance route for any straggler dwarfs that got trapped outside after you closed the main gate.

I sometimes combine the two concepts, having the caravan come down a long and well-defended corridor that I leave open to draw attackers into the kill zone. This way the caravan guards can serve as an emergency last line of defense for my fortress in case the attackers overwhelm what I've got ready for them. This is a bit riskier, though, since you could lose the caravan and possibly even some civilian dwarfs who are busy hauling trade goods there.
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userpay

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2008, 12:14:01 am »

I'm not entirely sure I understand your diagram, but the basic idea seems to be what's commonly used. At least, it's what I often do.

If you want to get more sophisticated and proactive about dealing with ambushes, though, you may want to add a second "goblin entrance" that you open up when the caravan's inside and the "trade entrance" is closed. As long as there's a path from the outside world to your dwarfs goblins will follow it, and you can use this to your advantage by making the goblin entrance long and twisty and filled with traps and sniping points. It can also provide a lifesaving entrance route for any straggler dwarfs that got trapped outside after you closed the main gate.

I sometimes combine the two concepts, having the caravan come down a long and well-defended corridor that I leave open to draw attackers into the kill zone. This way the caravan guards can serve as an emergency last line of defense for my fortress in case the attackers overwhelm what I've got ready for them. This is a bit riskier, though, since you could lose the caravan and possibly even some civilian dwarfs who are busy hauling trade goods there.
Wait so the ambushers won't go after my bait dog? Damn!
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Overdose

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2008, 12:14:54 am »

I build multiple layered defenses.

Code: [Select]
 
    Trade Depot         Barracks/Guard tower entrance
             |                   |
entrance=====X====Entry hallway==X==stairs to rest of fort
                                 |
                            Workshops

There's usually a bridged 5 or so levels deep trench around a perimeter with a few access bridges, and if i want more building room, i trench/wall off a new area so it's safe from ambushes and such. Also lots of dogs on ropes at any possible entry point for kobolds.

edit: oh, forgot to mention that the tower overlooks the depot, which also has limited access by water filled trenches and can only be accessed from the entry way side.

(security is the first priority of any new fort i make, rather then infrastructure or bedrooms and such)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 12:18:40 am by Overdose »
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userpay

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2008, 12:27:10 am »

Just because heres a picture of my airlock just for suggestions sake (for improvement).

I've got cages set up on a lever so if gobs get into the place then I pull the lever and release the hounds (about 6 war dogs per cage). Then a full set of cage traps to help warn me of ambushes as they try to aproach. You can probably see my bait dog which is most likely useless now. There is a tower on top of this. And if you knowticed that cat down there it somehow fell into the channel and swam over there, I don't really like them (in the game) so I don't know what to do with it (its been there for a few years). I might try the long corridor of traps because I'm having a big issue with ambushes and getting wood for coal and that might help reduce the ambushes. I'd just need to channel it so its outside and I can keep the dwarves out of it.
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Kogan Loloklam

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2008, 08:58:04 am »

I've got a massive floodgate door 5 wide that I keep open almost all the time, leading into a 3 z-level high entry hall carved with fortifications. This hall is fully floodable. I have a drawbridge that raises and prevents goblin invaders access in the fortress. When the Floodgate door is open, the drawbridge is shut. Only when traders arrive do I shut the floodgate door.
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Stromko

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2008, 10:58:35 am »

I just have an external, walled area where the trade depot is located. The walled area is accessed through a 3-wide (of course) corridor filled with traps.

At the end of this trap corridor are little rooms with gem windows facing into the corridor, which I've dropped a couple unneeded animals into to serve as sentries. When Kobolds come along to steal, the animals bark / bay / moo at them through the windows and scare them off, I guess. Since thieves are the only thing that evade traps (probably), nothing can break in.

Lots of double doors allow access to the greater fortress, but can be locked at a moment's notice. Since the walled area is outside, dwarves set to stay inside should stay out of trouble.

I've still had issues with dwarves occasionally going past the trap corridor, being spooked by ambushers, and then regardless of being told to go inside, running /out/ and being killed. I think they might be trying to enter other subterranean areas on the map, or they won't even try to go indoors when they're running from hostiles. This could be resolved by sending out the marksdwarves to cover them while they dump all the goblin and kobold gear inside where I can reclaim it later for trade fodder, thus ridding them of reasons to go outdoors. (I've already killed all the cats so there's not dead vermin all over the map that they'd be trying to cart back)
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betamax

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2008, 12:20:51 pm »

My trade depot isn't defended at all, as it is separate from the main fortress entrance. I know there's a small risk of thieves but there are so many dwarves coming to and from that area anyway that they get spotted quickly.
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Deathworks

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2008, 01:41:29 pm »

Hi!

I am with the external, walled trade depot. Just for a little twist, I usually build a 5 tile wide paved road for the wagons from the edge to the depot. In order to allow for weapon traps (I really love them), I simply have the road twist a little bit so that it is not the shortest path to the depot anymore.

Then just add walls around the depot (with extra doors so invaders will NOT follow the road), some additional anti-artillery walls at random and of course statues or walls less than 3 tiles apart alongside the road so as to discourage the wagons from leaving the road.

Usually, my entrance is nearby, so that if I get thieves, the caravan military can handle them (yes, my dwarves are farmers, not warriors :) :) :) :) ).

Deathworks
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Dareon Clearwater

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2008, 11:14:34 pm »

My trade depot is on z -15.  Connected to the surface by a spiraling tunnel that runs around the edge of the map (1x2 fort).  This tunnel is lined with traps.  There's a shorter tunnel that ramps straight down into the depot after the long tunnel has made about 1 and a half turns.  This one is blocked by floodgates in winter and spring, and has my most deadly traps in it in case an ambush comes down it while the caravans are still en route.

The only other access to the fort is a single stairway in a fortified gatehouse.  The stairway leads down right into my barracks and past a cage of animals.
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LegacyCWAL

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Re: Fortress Defence When Caravan Arives
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2008, 02:14:12 pm »

When caravans arrive, I mobilize my military and (if I've built it up enough to do so), send a squad or two to help protect it.  Entryway defenses can only extend so far, and don't do any good if the goblins appear on the far side of the map and hit the wagons three hundred steps from the nearest trap.


As far as defending the depot itself goes, I don't use all that airlock stuff.  I'm too forgetful, and would probably wind up locking out half the caravans.  Plus, I like to let attackers get nice and deep into a shooting gallery before butchering them so that I can kill as many as possible before they flee far enough to escape my wrath.  Don't get me wrong, the Corridor o' Doom itself is as long as deep as anybody else's would be, it's just that there's another fifty (or two hundred, in the case of one of my forts 8) ) steps' worth of seemingly-empty canyon/causeway in front of it.

To do this, I usually wind up with a convoluted mess of a defense grid.  The general layout typically looks something like this:

Code: [Select]

                    
     Bunkers====barracks===Stairs to barracks
                                     |
Front Gate==Entry hallway==Depot==Forward storage area
                                                    |
                                          Stairs to rest of fort
                                                    |
                                             Rest of fort
This keeps my civilians (mostly) out of the way of my soldiers, keeps children well away from the line of fire, and keeps enemy melee troops a ridiculously long walk from my Marksdwarves.  The forward storage area is a compromise between convenience and defense: it's close to the depot to cut down on pathfinding problems when loading up for caravans, but almost entirely reliant on chained animals to keep thieves away.

The bunkers are only seperated from the entryway by a row of Fortifications and a channel.  Marksdwarves are initially deployed to rearward bunkers, with melee troops hanging out at the depot as backup.  When the enemy gets to the front gate, there's a sacrificial critter chained there to spot ambushers and subsequently get turned into practice ammo by ambushers (and siegers, for that matter).  When the enemy gets to the entry hallway, they suddenly find themselves being caged and slaughtered by traps, peppered by fortification-protected Marksdwarves, hammered by siege engines, and thrashed by at least a dozen heavily-armored melee troops.  If an enemy punches through that, then they deserve to win 8).  After all of that, when the enemy breaks, they have to flee through a hail of XBow fire before they even see daylight.

The main downside is that if something like a snatcher or thief gets in, it has no trouble getting away because it's almost impossible to get troops from the barracks to their stations in anything resembling a decent amount of time.  Of the dozen or so thieves killed in my current fortress, only one has been shot, with the rest being chopped up by lumberjacks or beaten to death by haulers.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 02:16:20 pm by LegacyCWAL »
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