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[qwertyuiopas]

Oblivion removed a few spell effects and only added one(that lets you define a script to run), the city enclosures are terrible, although not nessecary, and the sub-worlds introduced for that purpose might lead to interesting mods.

They changed the weapon system and ruined skills, and here is the only good:
-script effect spell type
-exteriors with terrain not on world
-ragdoll corpses(only good for the dynamic death)
-item physics(terrible in most situations except for item stacks with the lowest removed floating in morrowind)

bad:
-everything else.


Morrowind encouraged enchanted items by allowing them to slowly regenerate power while limiting your magic, although you could restore yours in many ways. Oblivion required wasting money or soulgerms to recharge enchanted items but allowed you to cast as much as you wanted if you just waited a few minutes.

Oblivion allowed you to go between almost any interesting map feature with a single click while morrowind encouraged you to explore the land, and that is a good thing because morrowind's landscapes varied and had effort put into creating them.


You could load a model as anything in the morrowind editor, but oblivion auto-sorted it into what it was exported.



Morrowind encouraged exploring, side quests, and guilds, while oblivion just had them there for players who were bored of the main quest...

That brings me to the only other good thing oblivion had: wabajack(is that how it was spelled?) the only funny part of the game.

[Aqizzar]

The one thing that made Morrowind truly great was that it came with the fully functional editor used to make everything.  With enough imagination and understanding of the program (let alone some 3D graphic ability) you could completely remake the games or add anything you wanted.  (Of course, if you played it on a console, you didn't get any of that.  Serves you right.)

Plus it was just really awesome in it's time.  I fought my way to grand master of the Telvanni, made a daedric dai-katana of life-absorbing and a amulet of constant levitation (no cheating either), became a vampire, and rocked the expansions.  Stopped playing not long after that when there was just nothing left to do.

A lot of great expansions out there.  I've you've never played the Twin-Lamps mod campaign, a lot of thought went into it.  Good for a midlevel character - check it out if you want something new.

[Kagus]

I found out something interesting in Oblivion...  Don't know how things worked in Morrowind.

Just get a spell or a weapon with a 1 second paralyze.  It hardly cost anything, and it could cause all sorts of mayhem because everybody used ragdolls.  Although the effect technically only lasted one second, it had to wait for the ragdoll to fall completely to the floor and then raise itself back up.  Much longer than just one second.

Plus, it made people fall off ledges if they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.


I have Oblivion...  I played Morrowing a long time ago, on the Xbox. 

Since I never got to play Morrowing for any extended time (cousin's house), I didn't have any expectations for when I got Oblivion, aside from how everyone was raving about how cool a game it was.  I enjoyed it, quite a bit.  I think I got my money's worth out of it. 

Oblivion isn't a horrible game.  In comparison to Morrowind, maybe.  I can't really say as far as that's concerned. 

But then again, I play with a lot of mods.  One of the things I like about Oblivion is that it has a lot of very good modders working to tweak it in interesting ways, and that the game has a very nice way of handling the many mods that can go into it.

[Idiom]

Morrowind is quite awesome because of this as well.

[Fualkner]

Some of those screenshots are the most inspired game landscapes I've ever seen. I wish I could get the Construction Set to work, but I've never been able to.

I played Morrowind for a while, then got a new computer and started Oblivion. I love both games, but combat sort of sucks in both, except bows are better in Oblivion. Also, a sneaking mod that makes sneak attacks worth your while was the clincher for me.

[Torak]

I like the chameleon spell in Oblivion. And that's pretty much it.

[Reasonableman]

I seriously got into Morrowind. I would steal my parent's laptop and hide away in my room, just collecting and reading books. No other game had quite that sense of depth, to me at least. In Oblivion, something about the books seemed much more... fake. I mean, they had the same ones from Morrowind, and there were ten million copies of every single one.

But in Morrowind, I'd have endless fun just poring over books, and exploring every crevice of a dungeon (all of which felt distinctly different, unlike Oblivion.)

Speaking of Oblivion's dungeons... It seemed to me that in Oblivion, the design team created a number of overly complex 'sections' that could only be put together in a few, rather mechanical, fashions. You ended up with a bunch of very pretty hallways that were all practically the same.

I also rather like the fact that in Morrowind you could customize every bit of the armor, and it always seemed to me like there was a lot more stuff to buy because of it.

The one thing I really, really liked about Oblivion was the fact that they FINALLY brought the combat out of the dark ages. I just wish that some freakish hybrid of DWAAARF FORTRESS's horribly complex violence and Oblivion's straightfoward controls could be found. Thanks to http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/30/wii-motionplus-co-developer-demos-tech-in-new-video/, we may one day have full 1-1 RPG combat. One day.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Wow does all that really matter? It angers me when people pick apart the tiny things to say it sucks. One example of this is what console has better graphics.

It matters to some people.  I'm just using it to illustrate that even the graphics in Obliivon aren't that good.  It really angers you when people look at something in detail in order to support their argument?  What would you prefer?

[Pnx]

So I keep hearing opinions along the line of:
Daggerfall was great
Morrowind was good
Oblivion sucked.

Is it me or is it the growing trend for games to get worse as time goes by?

[Omath Erius]

So I keep hearing opinions along the line of:
Daggerfall was great
Morrowind was good
Oblivion sucked.

Is it me or is it the growing trend for games to get worse as time goes by?

Media of all kinds tends to generate something of a "If it's older, it's better" Syndrome. If a game is "X" good, they expect the sequel to be X^X, or it's just crap. It doesn't help that everything changed loses you points with some people, and everything kept the same loses you points with other people.

*Grumbles*

Last I checked, all the Elder Scrolls games take place in the same world, so if you're really interested into lore, the books in Morrowind technicially carry over to Oblivion.

The graphics in either may not be top-of-the-line, but Oblivion's was a substantial improvement over Morrowind. Hearing what the people were saying when I talked to them helped too. I'm probobly not in any position to judge graphics, as I seem to be the only person in the universe who can't tell the difference between "high" and "very high" settings on most games.

I still haven't forgiven Morrowind for that damned Egg Poacher mission for the fighter's guild. Wasn't hard, just never seemed to register them as killed.



Not saying which one I think is better, just defending Oblivion.

[Reasonableman]

I didn't like Daggerfall. Great, vast, empty expanses of terrain combined with lackluster combat. I did like the item and character variety, but everything felt very copy-pasted.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

Well it was an excellent game at this time I think. And Morrowind was fantastic at the time. Oblivion just had better graphics, and it wasn't a great game at the time.

You remember the starter dungeon of Daggerfall? It kinda rocked. And the realization that you could climb walls? Yum. Guess they figure we don't want better gameplay, we just want more bloom.

The conversation system in TES is pretty cool too. I was reading earlier about conversation types in games, and we're seeing keyword convos like SNES Shadowrun or Morrowind, or tree convos like Planescape: Torment and NWN. But Fallout had both, it just didn't really use the keyword convo feature much.

But it showed a game that I can't remember its name, but it had a keyword + approach + truthfulness system. So you could talk about things in many different ways.

[Cthulhu]

Oblivion was okay for a while, but it really wasn't deep enough to keep me into it.  When I found an artifact in Morrowind, it was like "So yeah, the artifact might be in this area, but what do I know?  Have fun".  In Oblivion it was like "Okay, you're playing this on the 360, so you must not like to think.  The artifact is right here.  I'll mark it on your map.  Right there, see it?  Having trouble?  Here, I'll add an arrow pointing at it on your compass so you won't get lost.  If you want, I can take you there right now, just click on the mark."  Even non-artifacts were fun to find.  I found a daedric katana in a ruin, and it was great.  Best ruin ever.  It didn't even need fighting, the atmosphere was wonderful, and felt truly primordial.

Then of course is the brutal crippling of the magic system.  Morrowind had so many different spell effects, and all of them could be placed on an item, and any item could do anything.  I had a pair of pants that summoned Ancestor Spirits and an amulet that shot fireballs.  Even if the combat wasn't very good, the sheer amount of stuff you could do was great, and it was challenging.  Remember the psycho wood elf from Hell?  The one that begs you for money and then lays the smackdown upon your sorry self if you don't give it to him?  I trained for days to fight him, enchanted my equipment, and was so hopped up on Skooma I could've taken a bullet to the chest, and he still beat me like ten times.  Oblivion had no challenge at all.  The only way I had any challenge in the game is when Umbra broke thirty seconds into Sol Sanctum or whatever it was, generic tomb level, and had to fight Gloom Wraiths with an iron axe, and even then I didn't die once.(I'll give the Gloom Wraiths one thing, their howling is scary when you're not expecting it, I played that level at like 2 in the morning and my nerves were completely shot when I beat it)  Plus, yeah, the graphics aren't that good, and they become hideous at long ranges.  I remember when I looked upon the Imperial City for the first time, from the cliffs above it, it was like a big middle finger flipping me off, in the middle of a vast field of Green Play-dough.  I'll take Morrowind, bad graphics and all, any day over Oblivion.

And don't even get me started on Bloom.  If I wanted to burn my eyes, I'd look at the sun.  Games look so much better without it.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

So I keep hearing opinions along the line of:
Daggerfall was great
Morrowind was good
Oblivion sucked.

Is it me or is it the growing trend for games to get worse as time goes by?

Media of all kinds tends to generate something of a "If it's older, it's better" Syndrome. If a game is "X" good, they expect the sequel to be X^X, or it's just crap. It doesn't help that everything changed loses you points with some people, and everything kept the same loses you points with other people.

*Grumbles*

Last I checked, all the Elder Scrolls games take place in the same world, so if you're really interested into lore, the books in Morrowind technicially carry over to Oblivion.

The graphics in either may not be top-of-the-line, but Oblivion's was a substantial improvement over Morrowind. Hearing what the people were saying when I talked to them helped too. I'm probobly not in any position to judge graphics, as I seem to be the only person in the universe who can't tell the difference between "high" and "very high" settings on most games.

I still haven't forgiven Morrowind for that damned Egg Poacher mission for the fighter's guild. Wasn't hard, just never seemed to register them as killed.



Not saying which one I think is better, just defending Oblivion.

Where exactly are you getting this idea that people not liking a new game must obviously be unreasonable?  Would you like Dwarf Fortress 2 if it was a ww2 first person shooter with no blood or Dwarves?  It's not about age, it's about whether or not the sequel is as good as or better than the original.  How many people do you see saying Diablo or Warcraft 1 is better than Diablo or Warcraft 2?  What about HL1 compared to HL2?  What about Arena compared to Daggerfall?  All your theory does is allow you to feel superior to people who hold a different opinion than you by automatically marking them as unreasonable.

If you like the lore of the world like I do that's a reason to hate Oblivion, since they contradicted it repeatedly for the sole purpose of making the game more generic and mainstream.

It's pretty much unacceptable for the PC version's graphics to be inferior to the 360 version since the only way that could happen is due to either laziness or underhanded intentions.  Graphics aren't really a big deal for me, but it's just another in the nigh endless list of things wrong with the game.  Especially considering how hyped the graphics were, and that other games that had come out before it had had no such problems.

Don't get me wrong.  Daggerfall was flawed, but it was awesome in it's scope and potential.  Morrowind, could have been even better, but instead they chose to lower the potential and scope of the project.  Oblivion...  They just made a product to sell.  And it's worse than the sum of it's parts because the developers outright lied about the game on multiple occasions.  Even going so far as to present a scripted scene as a demonstration of Radiant AI in action.  They said it'd take place in Cyrodiil, only Cyrodiil was transformed into generic medieval European fantasy land.  They promised improved dialogue but all it was was different, and dumber, and less.  They even withheld content from the retail version in order to charge extra to get it later.

Reasonableman:  Besides the item and character variety that's a reletively accurate description of Oblivion.

[Asheron]

We should make a community adventurer on Morrowind and Oblivion and name both Urist. Then, we should see what happens. It's the only dwarfish way to end the ultimate question.
Which one is better? Which one will triumph?