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Author Topic: Anybody play Morrowind?  (Read 7130 times)

Ioric Kittencuddler

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2008, 12:36:33 pm »

Make a what?
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2008, 12:39:21 pm »

We should make a community adventurer on Morrowind and Oblivion and name both Urist. Then, we should see what happens. It's the only dwarfish way to end the ultimate question.
Which one is better? Which one will triumph?

Skooma will triumph. Or ... Mooon Sugar.
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Tahin

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2008, 01:00:56 pm »

So I keep hearing opinions along the line of:
Daggerfall was great
Morrowind was good
Oblivion sucked.

Is it me or is it the growing trend for games to get worse as time goes by?

Media of all kinds tends to generate something of a "If it's older, it's better" Syndrome. If a game is "X" good, they expect the sequel to be X^X, or it's just crap. It doesn't help that everything changed loses you points with some people, and everything kept the same loses you points with other people.

*Grumbles*

Last I checked, all the Elder Scrolls games take place in the same world, so if you're really interested into lore, the books in Morrowind technicially carry over to Oblivion.

The graphics in either may not be top-of-the-line, but Oblivion's was a substantial improvement over Morrowind. Hearing what the people were saying when I talked to them helped too. I'm probobly not in any position to judge graphics, as I seem to be the only person in the universe who can't tell the difference between "high" and "very high" settings on most games.

I still haven't forgiven Morrowind for that damned Egg Poacher mission for the fighter's guild. Wasn't hard, just never seemed to register them as killed.



Not saying which one I think is better, just defending Oblivion.

Where exactly are you getting this idea that people not liking a new game must obviously be unreasonable?  Would you like Dwarf Fortress 2 if it was a ww2 first person shooter with no blood or Dwarves?  It's not about age, it's about whether or not the sequel is as good as or better than the original.  How many people do you see saying Diablo or Warcraft 1 is better than Diablo or Warcraft 2?  What about HL1 compared to HL2?  What about Arena compared to Daggerfall?  All your theory does is allow you to feel superior to people who hold a different opinion than you by automatically marking them as unreasonable.

I actually do prefer HL1 to HL2... But that is beside the point.

I recently popped my morrowind disk in to find that it is scratched beyond all repair. This made me very sad, as while I own both Daggerfall and Oblivion, Morrowind really is the best one. The best way I've seen it described is that in each version, they made the playable area smaller, but made it more detailed.

In Arena, you have the whole of [whatever that continent is called] to explore, but you have to "fast travel" between towns, because there is infinite wilderness between them. Virtually all the towns look the same, there are no guilds in the normal sense of the word as it relates to roleplaying games, and the graphics are downright simplistic.

In Daggerfall, the graphics did not improve much. This time, you have a small section of the world map to explore, but it is absolutely massive, and can be walked from one end to the other in real-time, though this is as incredibly boring as it would be in real life. The combat is relatively the same, but the dialogue is pretty good, allowing you to ask about different things, in different ways. Fast traveling is still in, though this time it allows you to choose whether you want to stay at inns and such, or not, and if you choose to stay at inns, it requires money. I'm not sure exactly what that option does. There is a rather nice feature that you can select when fast traveling which ensures that you arrive during the day. You can ride a horse, a cart, even buy a ship. Sadly, while this game is incredibly complicated, most of the features are not fully implemented, resulting in half of the skills list being useless.

Morrowind changed a lot of things. It created the ability to have a pacifist character, and made combat suck. You swing, graphically it looks like you hit the monster, but you know that because of the "whoosh" sound and the lack of a blood cloud, you in fact did not. This is even worse with bows, as perfectly aimed arrows can go right through an enemy and hit a friendly standing behind him. Fast travel was removed and replaced with Silt Striders, forcing you to explore the wilderness a bit. Whether this was a good or a bad thing is debatable. Morrowind took Daggerfall's speech system and added to it, allowing you to jump between topics in a wiki-style manner, and adding the ability to ask in detail about an NPC's history. The world map was infinitely smaller than Daggerfall's, but much more detailed. The graphics were a massive improvement, and most towns looked relatively unique, thought there were still a lot of them, so there was quite a bit of copy-pasting.

Oblivion took everything that Morrowind had changed about the TES series and reversed it. Gone was that notion that one had to actually walk from place to place. Gone was the notion that some enemies are just too difficult for you. Gone was the notion that every NPC might have an interesting backstory that one could ask about. Gone was the notion that some might like to avoid killing anything, and instead engage in simple fetch quests, as certain guilds in Morrowind offered. The combat was infinitely improved, removing the roll to hit when you clearly hit him graphically, but it stilled felt a bit a stiff, as there is very little movement when you take a hit on your shield. Still, the staggering helps with this a bit. Oblivion has exactly 7 6 towns, each of which has their own graphical style. It has 4 guilds: Fighter's, Mage's, Thieve's, and Dark Brotherhood. These are not the guilds of morrowind, which you join and feel like you are actually part of the guild. Nay, you shall join the guild, then embark on a short journey of 10 or so incredibly linear quests until something happens to the head dude and you take his place, and then have absolutely no worthwhile reward for being the fucking head of the fucking guild. And you can do this to every guild with the same character. You'd think that being the head of all 4 of the only guilds in the whole fucking country would count for something.
Also, you get a cheap suit of armor for saving the world.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 01:06:04 pm by Tahin »
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2008, 01:05:57 pm »

Sounds like fun.

Oh wait - I have this sneaking suspicion that this is a game that was meant to be fun for people. I always assumed Oblivion was a kind of suicide booth or torture device.
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Ioric Kittencuddler

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2008, 01:14:22 pm »

Sounds like fun.

Oh wait - I have this sneaking suspicion that this is a game that was meant to be fun for people. I always assumed Oblivion was a kind of suicide booth or torture device.

It is meant to be fun for people who dislike thinking, having choices, and experiencing a good story, but do like wandering around a boring world picking flowers, playing dress up, killing things, and imagining the game has features that it doesn't.  I'm pretty sure no one said otherwise.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 01:17:53 pm by Ioric Kittencuddler »
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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2008, 01:23:20 pm »

Sometimes the whole having to walk everywhere thing got on my nerves a bit in morrowind, quite a few places didn't have any method of fast travel available, so yeah... Oh and there were so many ways to abuse the system and get you're character to super uber levels of strength. Like for example, and I don't want to ruin the plot here but.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: heheh poached eggs, that always makes me laugh.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 01:27:58 pm by Pnx »
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Asheron

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2008, 02:14:19 pm »

Make a what?
A community adventurer on Morrowind and Oblivion. As in, beam up game, make character that is as dwarfy as possible, name him Urist, and go along, trying to break the game in as many ways as possible. Not that hard.

EDIT: Ah, I think I see what might have caused confusion. With community adventurer, I mean making one character in the TES games which represents the DWAAAAAAARF FORTRESS community.

what?
You n'wah! Make a community adventurer on Morrowind and Oblivion!

what?
I've talked with mudcrabs more fiercome then you! Have at you!

*Note, this post was meant to be funny by using Morrowind quotes. If you did not deem this funny, your life is probably drab and boring. Have a nice day.*
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 02:16:35 pm by Asheron »
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Ioric Kittencuddler

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2008, 02:21:56 pm »

"I saw a mudcrab the other day."

"Horrible creatures!  I avoid them whenever I can."
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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2008, 02:24:42 pm »

Hmmm since dwarves are dead, we'll just have to go with a short orc... that is totally not a goblin... in any way... and likes wearing bone things...
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Asheron

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2008, 02:28:28 pm »

There are plenty of dwarf mods around for both games, I think.
Of course, each Urist should atleast use axes, dwemer armour, and regularly drink beer.

"I've heard them say we've reached Morrowind, I'm sure they'll let us go."
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lumin

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2008, 02:46:31 pm »

I just found this page

Seems to be a list of mods designed to make Morrowind seem more like Daggerfall.

I agree that Morrowind was superior to Oblivion EXCEPT for combat.  I even would go so far to say that Morrowind's graphics are better.  Sure, it didn't have all the glitzy HDR/bloom high-res, but Morrowind's world was much more varied ESPECIALLY the dungeons.

Every dungeon in the game was unique in it's layout and design.  Even though textures were re-used, the layout was varied enough to keep you surprised.

Every dungeon in Oblivion looked alike.  From what I understand, all the dungeons were built using "pieces" that just connected to each other.  So you had caves with the same exact winding tunnel.  What made it worse was the leveled creatures.  So not only did you have identical dungeons, but you would see the exact same monster over and over again (rats, wolves, bandits, repeat)
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Omath Erius

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2008, 02:47:53 pm »


Where exactly are you getting this idea that people not liking a new game must obviously be unreasonable?  Would you like Dwarf Fortress 2 if it was a ww2 first person shooter with no blood or Dwarves?


I'm not saying not liking a new game(movie, season of a television show, book) is unreasonable, but disliking a game because it doesn't live up to the normally massive standards that players set for it the moment they set down it's predeccessor is. Especially if the game is otherwise fun.

Your Dwarf Fortress 2 example is flawed (Wouldn't it be called Slaves to Armok: God of Blood III?) because you're inferring the gameplay and genre have completly changed. Even if this did happen, I would try it, because it's made by the same person who made Dwarf Fortress, and Armok forbid I still like it even though DF is better (Which isn't neccessarily true).

  It's not about age, it's about whether or not the sequel is as good as or better than the original.  How many people do you see saying Diablo or Warcraft 1 is better than Diablo or Warcraft 2?  What about HL1 compared to HL2?  What about Arena compared to Daggerfall?  All your theory does is allow you to feel superior to people who hold a different opinion than you by automatically marking them as unreasonable.

Ironic, as you also seem to have a theory for a similar purpose.

Diablo, Warcraft, and Half-life 2 we're all amazing games by themselves. They would've been if their predeccessors had never been released aswell.

How many people are ALREADY saying Diablo III is terrible?

I'm not comparing Arena to Daggerfall, never played either.


If you like the lore of the world like I do that's a reason to hate Oblivion, since they contradicted it repeatedly for the sole purpose of making the game more generic and mainstream.

Can you give an example?


Don't get me wrong.  Daggerfall was flawed, but it was awesome in it's scope and potential.  Morrowind, could have been even better, but instead they chose to lower the potential and scope of the project.  Oblivion...  They just made a product to sell. 

Every retail game ever made was intended to be sold, thats the idea behind a retail game. Once again, having not played Daggerall, i'm unsure as to what AMAZINGLY IMPORTANT piece of gameplay was present that never made it's way into Oblivion.

I'm not going mention your Developer lies rant, since I played the game about a year after it's release, and didn't pay attention to it's development, but I hope you don't think that Bethesda is the only company to ever lie about a product to make it sell better.

This is bordering on a flamewar, so i'm done here. Feel free to assert your dominance by getting the last word in.
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Tahin

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2008, 02:58:49 pm »

Does... uh... anyone happen to have a place I might download an iso? I don't like using bittorent... Don't know why. My disk is horribly scratched. It bothers me. I never even managed to complete the main quest...

 :(

Eh. Maybe I'll just pick up the GOTY edition. I never had the expansions... It's 10 bucks on Amazon. But first I will donate... Yes. First I will donate.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 03:05:15 pm by Tahin »
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Asheron

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2008, 03:06:53 pm »


If you like the lore of the world like I do that's a reason to hate Oblivion, since they contradicted it repeatedly for the sole purpose of making the game more generic and mainstream.
Can you give an example?

I can.

The introduction of mithril armour out of the blind is an example. How mainstreamish can you get?

EDIT: Ah yes, here is my dwarf in Oblivion. He is wearing adamantium armour. It menaces with spikes of crystal. On it is a picture of Oblivion. Oblivion is being mainstreamish.

« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 03:28:21 pm by Asheron »
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Ioric Kittencuddler

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Re: Anybody play Morrowind?
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2008, 04:15:53 pm »


Where exactly are you getting this idea that people not liking a new game must obviously be unreasonable?  Would you like Dwarf Fortress 2 if it was a ww2 first person shooter with no blood or Dwarves?


I'm not saying not liking a new game(movie, season of a television show, book) is unreasonable, but disliking a game because it doesn't live up to the normally massive standards that players set for it the moment they set down it's predeccessor is. Especially if the game is otherwise fun.

Your Dwarf Fortress 2 example is flawed (Wouldn't it be called Slaves to Armok: God of Blood III?) because you're inferring the gameplay and genre have completly changed. Even if this did happen, I would try it, because it's made by the same person who made Dwarf Fortress, and Armok forbid I still like it even though DF is better (Which isn't neccessarily true).

  It's not about age, it's about whether or not the sequel is as good as or better than the original.  How many people do you see saying Diablo or Warcraft 1 is better than Diablo or Warcraft 2?  What about HL1 compared to HL2?  What about Arena compared to Daggerfall?  All your theory does is allow you to feel superior to people who hold a different opinion than you by automatically marking them as unreasonable.

Ironic, as you also seem to have a theory for a similar purpose.

Diablo, Warcraft, and Half-life 2 we're all amazing games by themselves. They would've been if their predeccessors had never been released aswell.

How many people are ALREADY saying Diablo III is terrible?

I'm not comparing Arena to Daggerfall, never played either.


If you like the lore of the world like I do that's a reason to hate Oblivion, since they contradicted it repeatedly for the sole purpose of making the game more generic and mainstream.

Can you give an example?


Don't get me wrong.  Daggerfall was flawed, but it was awesome in it's scope and potential.  Morrowind, could have been even better, but instead they chose to lower the potential and scope of the project.  Oblivion...  They just made a product to sell. 

Every retail game ever made was intended to be sold, thats the idea behind a retail game. Once again, having not played Daggerall, i'm unsure as to what AMAZINGLY IMPORTANT piece of gameplay was present that never made it's way into Oblivion.

I'm not going mention your Developer lies rant, since I played the game about a year after it's release, and didn't pay attention to it's development, but I hope you don't think that Bethesda is the only company to ever lie about a product to make it sell better.

This is bordering on a flamewar, so i'm done here. Feel free to assert your dominance by getting the last word in.

Great, just tell me I'm wrong then leave.  Here's the evidence of butchering the lore you asked for.

http://www.imperial-library.info/pge/cyrodiil.shtml

Why is it that people never seem to be able to tell the difference between making a game that you will sell and making a game with money as the sole motivation?  Seriously...  Do people really not get that or do they just choose not to understand?  Either way it's really annoying.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 04:27:50 pm by Ioric Kittencuddler »
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