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[Red Jackard]

Then we'd need to be able to climb, though, so as to better reach the head.

http://sotctribute3of6.ytmnd.com/

[Emperor_Jonathan]

Multi-tile and multi z-level megabeasts would be awesome, if they attacked your fortress, after you killed them the skeletons must be huge! This would lead to wacky designs.



Dragon head entrance? Yes please!

[Nonanonymous]

Of course, you'd have to wonder how that would be drawn in ascii, would it just be a block, or would it have defined features?  If it did, it would probably end up hardcoded, and thus make modded megabeasts more of a problem.

[Emperor_Jonathan]

No idea.


It sounds cool though.

[Warmist]

yeah but multi tile pathfinding is a lot more difficult (only thing thats implemented is wagons) also i think that in DF multi z objects are not implemented yet (like buildings, creatures etc)

[Red Jackard]

Of course, you'd have to wonder how that would be drawn in ascii, would it just be a block, or would it have defined features?  If it did, it would probably end up hardcoded, and thus make modded megabeasts more of a problem.

It probably wouldn't be drawn at all.

How does the game draw other multi-tile features? Like say, a temple.

[Soadreqm]

Another roguelike, Iter Vehemens Ad Necem, had multi-tile monsters. Their dev team, at least, couldn't figure out how to make them pathfind, so some are immobile and some can just smash through walls. Looked neat, though.

As for sieges, even if the soil is made to eventually run out of nutrients, you will probably be able to just re-muddy it.

[umiman]

I usually just let my imagination fill in all the weirdness in the game. I don't really see ascii, just like most people who've played this game for a long time. I see real images and real movement. Occasionally, I even smell the smells in game and I can feel the touch on my skin because my imagination (or delusions) are so powerful. That's why I can't play with tilesets because those, ironically or not, actually detract from allowing my imagination to flow.

Of course... this isn't a viable, mass-market option as not many people are not as wistful or dreamy (or have brain issues).

[Syreal]

I think it would be possible to have moddable multi-z level megabeasts. You'd have to choose from some pathing finding options like "quadraped" or "humanoid", and you could define the ascii tiles for the first z level, second, etc. Of course, modding megabeasts would be MUCH harder if they were multiple z levels and tiles. You'd have to almost animate them -- certain body positions for walking, attacking, breathing fire, etc.

Loved the picture, Dwarfaholic.

Back to the siege -- okay, so the dragon can breathe fire into you dwelling, and the fire will spread out through the tunnels and incinerate everyone. If you make a door to protect yourselves, it had better be adamantine.

[Makrond]

Heh... IVAN had most of the things that Toady eventually wants to put into adventure mode. I still love that game.

Multi-tile beasts would be awesome, but multi-Z-level creatures would be ridiculously difficult to implement. Epic, yes, but - from a coding and balance standpoint - completely infeasible.

[Syreal]

Most of the things that break out the genre of the roguelike appear infeasible before they've actually been done. Who would have thought that multi z levels would even be possible if it wasn't for DF? Who would have thought generating an entire world randomly and from a scriptable modbase would be feasible; except that Toady has managed to do it.

Sure, multi z level beasts are infeasible -- but probably so are all the other cool things about DF.

About balancing, the point is that you NEED an army in order to defeat the beast; forget this lone wolf stuff! Killing a dragon would be the ultimate challenge.

[Dwarfaholic]

I think it would be possible to have moddable multi-z level megabeasts. You'd have to choose from some pathing finding options like "quadraped" or "humanoid", and you could define the ascii tiles for the first z level, second, etc. Of course, modding megabeasts would be MUCH harder if they were multiple z levels and tiles. You'd have to almost animate them -- certain body positions for walking, attacking, breathing fire, etc.

Loved the picture, Dwarfaholic.

Back to the siege -- okay, so the dragon can breathe fire into you dwelling, and the fire will spread out through the tunnels and incinerate everyone. If you make a door to protect yourselves, it had better be adamantine.

What picture? I don't get it.

Also, I agree with Syreal. Multi-tile megabeasts would be awesome.

[Syreal]

Then we'd need to be able to climb, though, so as to better reach the head.

http://sotctribute3of6.ytmnd.com/

Sorry dude. I meant Red Jackard's post.

[Makrond]

I see your point to some extent. My only concern is that perhaps dragons would become some kind of ender demon that you might have a slim chance to slay. Then there's the issues of making sure all the civilisations in the world don't get wiped out by a dragon/colossus/whatever. And making sure they don't come too early in a fortress and being some kind of near-unavoidable limit to how big/prosperous a fortress can become.

All that is a massive hurdle from a coding standpoint. It's also a balance issue, but that's less of a focus here.

I suppose my point is: do you want multi-Z-level megabeasts, or simple(r) multi-tile megabeasts and another cool gameplay element?

[Floirt]

I suppose my point is: do you want multi-Z-level megabeasts, or simple(r) multi-tile megabeasts and another cool gameplay element?

Multi Z-level megabeasts, unless this cool gameplay element is the adventurer skills arc