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Author Topic: Population Cap Not Working? 39e  (Read 1384 times)

Paul

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Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« on: July 25, 2008, 01:46:46 am »

For something different I decided to try a generational fortress with everyone being descendants of the original 7, so I set my pop cap to 5 before even generating my new world. And yet the immigrants keep coming - every season or so one wanders in, and lately its been 2 at a time now that I have my fortress built a bit more.

I'm up to 12 and I'm only a year in, and they don't show any sign of stopping. Is there a lower limit on what you can set the pop cap to? Either that or it just isn't working in this version.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 01:48:19 am by Paul »
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Toady One

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2008, 03:33:02 am »

I'm never able to reproduce these pop cap problems.  I might have a chance if I've got a save and your init file.  The caps seem to check pop correctly for me.
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Paul

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2008, 03:07:37 pm »

Could it be that 5 is too low a number for the pop cap to work?

I upped it to 10, and after a few seasons no more immigrants have come.

-edit- Yep, that seems to be it. A pop cap too low apparently doesn't work. Setting it to 10 has netted me 0 immigrants in 2 years.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 07:08:39 pm by Paul »
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Dame de la Licorne

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2008, 06:39:09 pm »

Yeah, it seems that the minimum pop cap that works is 10.  Every time I set it lower, it doesn't seem to register with the immigrant checks..
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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2008, 07:03:02 pm »

I have always had issues with population caps and for me it always seems to be set off by births pushing me over the cap and then a trickle of immigrants from that point on.
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MuonDecay

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 10:55:40 pm »

Well I've just had my own first problem with pop cap not working, since (with a population cap setting of 20) I had over 20 dwarves when the dwarven caravan came... and shortly after it left I received another 8 immigrants that I had clearly set as being unwelcome.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 12:38:27 am by MuonDecay »
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MuonDecay

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2008, 12:48:15 am »

Okay, something is seriously amiss here, because not only is population cap not working, neither is the cap on children. I have it set to 0:0, which should absolutely forbid any births whatsoever, and dwarves keep spitting out infants anyway.

Both population control features are, for me, entirely broken. Most unfortunate.

The only mods I am running are the barebones martial arts mod, and the bare bones minerals+ mod, neither of which should have any impact on this behavior whatsoever.

here's the entire text of my init file:
Code: [Select]
Change this to turn sound off.

[SOUND:ON]

The sound volume runs from 0 (off) to 255 (full).  You can set the volume from the ESC options menu as well.

[VOLUME:255]

Change this to skip the wonderful intro movies.

[INTRO:ON]

This lets you set the starting windowed/fullscreen setting.  Can be YES, NO or PROMPT.

[WINDOWED:YES]

This is the size and font for windowed mode.  Changing to 800x600 and the 800x600 font might make you happier.

[WINDOWEDX:640]
[WINDOWEDY:300]
[FONT:curses_640x300.bmp]

Full screen info.

[FULLSCREENX:800]
[FULLSCREENY:600]
[FULLFONT:curses_800x600.bmp]

If this is set to YES, the tiles will not be stretched, but rather the game view will be centralized, surrounded by black space.  Tiles that are too large will always be compressed rather than running off the screen.

[BLACK_SPACE:NO]

Graphics info, most of it as above.  Set GRAPHICS to YES to turn it all on.  This will use the "raw/graphics" folder for tile information.  Currently this is limited to whatever creature graphics you have downloaded.  The game comes with a few pictures to demonstrate.  As of July 2008, the Dwarf Fortress Wiki has graphical tilesets available at http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/List_of_user_graphics_sets.

[GRAPHICS:YES]
[GRAPHICS_WINDOWEDX:1280]
[GRAPHICS_WINDOWEDY:400]
[GRAPHICS_FONT:square_16x16.bmp]
[GRAPHICS_FULLSCREENX:1280]
[GRAPHICS_FULLSCREENY:800]
[GRAPHICS_FULLFONT:curses_square_16x16.bmp]
[GRAPHICS_BLACK_SPACE:YES]

Change this to YES to keep the DF window on top of your other windows.

[TOPMOST:NO]

Change this to YES if you want to see an FPS counter at the top left.

[FPS:NO]

Use this to set the maximum frame rate during play.  The movies are always capped at 100.  A frame in this case is not graphical but related to the movement speed of a creature.  A healthy, unencumbered dwarven peasant takes one step every 10 frames.

[FPS_CAP:100]

Use this to set the maximum graphical frame refresh rate during play.

[G_FPS_CAP:50]

This sets the applications vertical synchronization behavior.  Changing this to ON can impact your FPS if your G_FPS is high.  The other options are ON and DEFAULT.  DEFAULT uses whatever settings you have your system at in general.

[VSYNC:OFF]

Change this to LINEAR if you want the texture values to be averaged over the adjacent pixels.

[TEXTURE_PARAM:NEAREST]

Change this to make the dwarfort.exe process have a different priority.  From highest to lowest, the options are REALTIME, HIGH, ABOVE_NORMAL, NORMAL, BELOW_NORMAL and IDLE.

[PRIORITY:NORMAL]

Change this to NO if you don't want to have the mouse involved at all.

[MOUSE:YES]

Change this to YES if you'd like to use a BMP for the mouse cursor.  The image currently lags when the game is lagging however.

[MOUSE_PICTURE:YES]

Use these to control the automatic saving behavior in the dwarf fortress mode of game.  AUTOSAVE can be set to NONE, SEASONAL or YEARLY.  This updates your save at these intervals, so that some of your progress will be saved in case of system instability.  You can set AUTOBACKUP to YES if you want the updated save to be copied to another folder so that you'll have several copies of your world at different times.  Set AUTOSAVE_PAUSE to YES if you want the game to pause every time it autosaves.

[AUTOSAVE:YEARLY]
[AUTOBACKUP:NO]
[AUTOSAVE_PAUSE:NO]

Set this to YES if you want it to save the game when you start a new fortress.  If AUTOBACKUP above is set to YES, it will also create a copy of this new save.

[INITIAL_SAVE:NO]

Set this to YES to make Dwarf Fortress start paused whenever you load an active game.

[PAUSE_ON_LOAD:YES]

Set this to YES if you want Dwarf Fortress to show the warning window on embark as a confirmation even if there are no issues.

[EMBARK_WARNING_ALWAYS:NO]

You can change these to ALWAYS and NO.  More restrictive world parameter settings override these.  ALWAYS lets you see the features in the Local view during embark, and NO stops you from looking for features in the site finder (though if you really want to stop the finder, it might be better for you to generate worlds that restrict the use of this feature completely, in which case you don't need to change the settings here).

[SHOW_EMBARK_RIVER:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_POOL:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_M_POOL:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_CHASM:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_PIT:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_OTHER:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:ALWAYS]

Use these options to remove features from the game.  Permitted values are YES and NO.  Removal might speed the game up in the case of temperature and weather.

[TEMPERATURE:YES]
[WEATHER:YES]
[ECONOMY:YES]
[INVADERS:YES]
[CAVEINS:YES]
[ARTIFACTS:YES]
[ZERO_RENT:NO]

Change this to YES to output the reasons for world map rejection into a file.

[LOG_MAP_REJECTS:YES]

Change these numbers to make the embark rectangle start at a different size.  The format is (EMBARK_RECTANGLE:<width>:<height>).  Numbers may run from 2 to 16.  The map size warning message will go by these numbers.

[EMBARK_RECTANGLE:6:6]

Change these numbers to set the default weights for traffic designations.  If you make the last numbers too large, pathfinding might lag.
The format is (PATH_COST:<high>:<normal>:<low>:<restricted>).

[PATH_COST:1:2:5:25]

Change this to YES to disallow pets from coffin burial as the default option.

[COFFIN_NO_PETS_DEFAULT:YES]

This controls the display of areas that are far below outside.  The format is SKY:<character>:<foreground color>:<background color>:<brightness>.  The <character> can be either an ASCII tile number or a character in quotes, like '#'.

[SKY:178:3:0:0]

As above, for inside/subterranean areas.

[CHASM:250:0:0:1]

This controls the "IDLERS: <number>" that is displayed in dwarf mode.  You can set it to TOP, BOTTOM or OFF.

[IDLERS:TOP]

You can set the maximum population of your fortress here.  Keep in mind that your population must be at least 80 to get a king and 100 to obtain the current game features.

[POPULATION_CAP:20]

This allows you to control the number of babies+children in your fortress.  The first number is an absolute cap on the number of babies+children.  The second is a percentage of the current number of adults in your fortress (the default is the essentially meaningless 1000% here).  The lower number is used as the cap.  The cap only prevents further pregancies, so migrant children, multiple births and existing pregnancies from old saves can still push you over the cap.  Setting either number to zero will disallow pregnancies in the fortress.

[BABY_CHILD_CAP:0:0]

If you don't like the ,.`' ground, try setting this to NO.  The ground will turn into periods only.

[VARIED_GROUND_TILES:NO]

If you'd like your engravings to start off looking the same (you can toggle them on individual later), set this to YES.

[ENGRAVINGS_START_OBSCURED:NO]

If you get annoyed by seeing items like *<*sword*>* you can
get rid of the outside ** by setting this to NO.

[SHOW_IMP_QUALITY:YES]

Set this to YES to display fluids as numbers indicating depth.

[SHOW_FLOW_AMOUNTS:NO]

If you'd prefer to have it show the history behind every engraving you view in dwarf mode, etc., then set this to YES.

[SHOW_ALL_HISTORY_IN_DWARF_MODE:YES]

This controls the number of milliseconds that must pass before a held key sends a repeat press to the game.  You might need to adjust this.

[KEY_HOLD_MS:150]

This controls the number of milliseconds that must pass before input works again after the view recenters on an event in dwarf mode.

[RECENTER_INTERFACE_SHUTDOWN_MS:0]

This controls "more" in adventure mode.  If MORE is set to NO, all announcements will be skipped.  DISPLAY_LENGTH controls how many lines are printed before it gives you the "more" prompt.

[MORE:YES]
[DISPLAY_LENGTH:23]

Set this to YES if you want traps to affect you in adventure mode.  This is not recommended -- there are lockup issues with cage traps, and you cannot disarm any of the traps yet, so they effectively stops you from exploring your old fortresses.

[ADVENTURER_TRAPS:NO]

Set this to NO if you want the game to recenter on your adventurer only when you've gotten close to the edge of the view.

[ADVENTURER_ALWAYS_CENTER:YES]

This controls the up/down views in adventure mode.  The first parameter can be OFF, UNHIDDEN, CREATURE or ON.  UNHIDDEN makes the view appear when it contains any unhidden square.  CREATURE makes the view appear when it contains a creature.  The second parameter is the size of the view.  It can be 3, 5, 7 or 9.  A smaller view lets it stack more of them in the column (3 at size 5, and 5 at size 3).

[ADVENTURER_Z_VIEWS:UNHIDDEN:9]

You can use these to say how nicknames are displayed in each mode
Options are REPLACE_FIRST, CENTRALIZE (between first and last), REPLACE_ALL
[NICKNAME_DWARF:REPLACE_FIRST]
[NICKNAME_ADVENTURE:REPLACE_FIRST]
[NICKNAME_LEGENDS:REPLACE_FIRST]

These are the display colors in RGB.  The game is actually displaying extended ASCII characters in OpenGL, so you can modify the colors.

[BLACK_R:0]
[BLACK_G:0]
[BLACK_B:0]
[BLUE_R:0]
[BLUE_G:0]
[BLUE_B:128]
[GREEN_R:0]
[GREEN_G:128]
[GREEN_B:0]
[CYAN_R:0]
[CYAN_G:128]
[CYAN_B:128]
[RED_R:128]
[RED_G:0]
[RED_B:0]
[MAGENTA_R:128]
[MAGENTA_G:0]
[MAGENTA_B:128]
[BROWN_R:128]
[BROWN_G:128]
[BROWN_B:0]
[LGRAY_R:192]
[LGRAY_G:192]
[LGRAY_B:192]
[DGRAY_R:128]
[DGRAY_G:128]
[DGRAY_B:128]
[LBLUE_R:0]
[LBLUE_G:0]
[LBLUE_B:255]
[LGREEN_R:0]
[LGREEN_G:255]
[LGREEN_B:0]
[LCYAN_R:0]
[LCYAN_G:255]
[LCYAN_B:255]
[LRED_R:255]
[LRED_G:0]
[LRED_B:0]
[LMAGENTA_R:255]
[LMAGENTA_G:0]
[LMAGENTA_B:255]
[YELLOW_R:255]
[YELLOW_G:255]
[YELLOW_B:0]
[WHITE_R:255]
[WHITE_G:255]
[WHITE_B:255]
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 01:09:13 am by MuonDecay »
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Draco18s

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2008, 01:38:50 am »

1) Pregnancies already in progress will continue despite the cap
2) 0 as a popcap never works anyway.  It'll be ignored.
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MuonDecay

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2008, 02:03:47 am »

Alright, the current births may indeed have been from prior pregnancies, my memory isn't sharp enough to claim otherwise.

However the actual population cap was set at 20, and when I was at a population of 20, 8 immigrants decided that 28<20, then the caravan came, and reported back that, indeed, 28<20, and that maybe 8 more dwarves might bump me up a little closer to my 20 population cap by moving the population up to 36, which still isn't quite 20 dwarves, but it's closer. :-\
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teta

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2008, 06:42:04 am »

Regarding the children cap, i also had a problem with this. I had the population cap set to sth around 80, and the children cap to a very low number ([3:10], maybe). And so i got no babies, but also almost no immigrants (immigration stoped around only 15). Maybe that influences each other in an unwanted way. Changing the init later to higher children cap also started immigration again.
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Loctavus

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2008, 06:55:18 am »

I found popcap tends to be a bit ropey anyway. All it does is check to see if you're over the limit yet, if you're not, you get a whole mess of peasants, even if you were one off the limit. It's best to set it to 15-20 below what you want, but there is no sure fire way of getting an exact number. Not without dishing out pull-the-lever-over-10-zlevel-drop jobs anyway.
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THLawrence

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 09:56:24 am »

I've had my pop cap set to 50 typically. Yesterday I had 51 or 52 dwarves. Just over the limit and a new wave appeared and pushed me over 65. It might be because I was under the limit at the start of the year and only went over it on the first wave of the year.(The second pushed me over 65). Then the following year the dungeon master showed up in his own wave. He was the only one to come too.
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Draco18s

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 10:25:59 am »

The lowest popcap that actually works is also 10, IIRC.
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MuonDecay

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2008, 01:13:03 pm »

I found popcap tends to be a bit ropey anyway. All it does is check to see if you're over the limit yet, if you're not, you get a whole mess of peasants, even if you were one off the limit. It's best to set it to 15-20 below what you want, but there is no sure fire way of getting an exact number. Not without dishing out pull-the-lever-over-10-zlevel-drop jobs anyway.

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Rhenaya

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Re: Population Cap Not Working? 39e
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2009, 07:28:48 am »

The lowest popcap that actually works is also 10, IIRC.

*used search for thread necromancy :p*

in 40d11 stil not working
made a popcap of 10
first year 3 migrants, so far so good, 7+3 seems fine
but in the second year i got 12 new migrants and my farmer couple got to much free time and made a baby.. so suddenly 23 dwarfs with a popcap of 10
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