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Author Topic: The NEW Future of the Fortress  (Read 342483 times)

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1395 on: January 06, 2009, 11:49:18 am »

I think todays dev_now sheds some light on that.
Quote from: Dev_now
The boiling gold blood came out as gold dust first, because I forgot to transfer the states between creature morphs properly, but after that it came out as a cloud of gold gas properly. I'll have to do it again once I've updated temperature damage.
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Footkerchief

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1396 on: January 06, 2009, 12:35:47 pm »

^^^ I couldn't tell if he meant "I'll have to redo the code" or "I'll have to redo the test so that when I slash open the gold-blooded dwarf, I get toasted by the gold vapor."
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Dr. Melon

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1397 on: January 06, 2009, 02:21:37 pm »

I can't wait to mod in all sorts of blood types for new and exciting creatures. How about magma blood? Then there'd be a problem in the fort if you shot the "lava blob" or something.

Ooh! How about a "Booze Golem"? Kill it, it bleeds delicious booze!
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Toady One

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1398 on: January 06, 2009, 02:36:50 pm »

(standard failure to proofread carefully warning)

Quote from: Mephansteras
Any idea at this point how much of an effect this is going to have on combat? For example, will Masterwork armor suddenly become more important then the metal?

I still don't know.  It's just down to the numbers, and I haven't yet had an opportunity to do fully-armored combat with the completed changes.

Quote from: Mephansteras
does this mean that a Masterwork sword gets a bigger boost then a Masterwork Hammer?

Yeah, the edge gives it an additional boost, though once damage is in it'll likely be a transient bonus unless you can also get a reliable dwarf to repair the item.

Quote from: Random832
Will we see more preview creature raws as you get creatures other than dwarves implemented?

Yeah, I'll be putting things up as they become more solidified and as I am reminded or remember.

Quote from: Thndr
If items become damaged and less effective, would there be:
Settings to make military squads prefer a certain quality?
A new profession//metalworking option for Item Repair?
A refuse option to include broken metal items, along with an auto-melt tag on broken metal items?

I'm reworking military equipment handling for ease of use for this release, and I'm trying to respect most things, but I'm not sure what we'll end up yet.  If I do item damage, I'll probably add some helpful options, but right now I'm completely unsure of whether or not I'm doing item damage, precisely because it opens up a lot of issues and I'm feeling a bit of self-inflicted time pressure.

Quote
Quote from: Pure_W
Willl there be castes in Entities?
Quote from: Meph
has there been any information on how Castes are going to work with Civs? Do all castes for a species automatically show up for that civ? Are there ways to restrict jobs to a particular caste?

The new entity position raws can specify castes.  This would allow you to set up a matriarchy, for instance.  Regular jobs can't at this point (they can have caste specific names).  The caste occurrence is currently determined by the population ratios and isn't restricted other than that.  As I work with the new underground features, this could be expanded as needed.

Quote from: Warlord255
What's the word on blood drinks?

Items distilled from plants are still the drinkable item.  You could make the plants squirt out dwarf blood, of course, at which point it'll either let you drink them or look at edibility variables (don't remember).  It's possible that the dwarves will cook blood that has dropped as items if you make it cookable, as both misc. liquids and powders are checked by the cooking jobs, but I'm not sure if they only check containers for those...

Quote from: Silverionmox
what are the plans concerning distances, weight, etc. Now a square holds anything from a butterfly to a tree or colossus - how far do you intend to go in sticking to a specific size for squares, with all the implications for large creatures, mass conservation etc. ?

I'm pretty comfortable with not specifying square sizes.  It's a ginormous mess to get into that.  At the same time, some of the plans will require steps in that direction, such as large item piles (so you could have a giant skull mound to slide down in adv mode for instance) and multi-tile trees to hop around on.

Quote from: jarathor
Will clothing help protect creatures from cold and/or heat? If it acts kind of like a tissue layer like you said armor would, would that do it? But then there's the whole deal of having poorly-dressed dwarves on embark and making more coats, jackets, and so on..

This already happens in the current version.  You might notice your dwarves and invaders and adv mode civilians wearing more or less clothing based on where you are at.  It's governed by the layering variable and how many layers you have, although you don't get enough feedback to make very informed decisions at this point, and dwarves are pretty stupid.

Quote from: Poltifar
Will we be able to smelt creatures in the smelter (or any other workshop) in this release?

Nope.  That'll take a significant job handling rewrite.

Quote
Quote from: yougiedeggs
What is protected with an iron cap vs. an iron helm?
What do gauntlets protect?
I take it chainmail won't be effective against piercing attacks like bolts?
Can armor break and become less useful?
Quote from: Techhead
Will chain mail use the same strength value that plate mail does?
i.e. Shear strength for piercing and slashing, impact strength for blunt.

I imagine that the rings that make up a mail sheet would behave differently than a steel plate. Piercing attacks on mail would likely exert tensile strain as it pries the rings open. A slashing attack would likely be converted into an impact. Blunt attacks probably wouldn't damage the mail at all, but it wouldn't absorb much of the attack, either.

Yeah, I haven't done much with this yet, but I imagine the armor item will actually need to guide these processes somewhat, as it doesn't currently know the difference between a chain mesh and a plate right now (eg, it doesn't currently add non-material-based elasticity to armor interactions).

Quote from: Mondark
Toady, with the new tissue layers, will it be possible to 'flay' creatures?

Yeah, sheep shearing was actually one of the many driving forces behind this update.  However, I think flayed corpses in HFS might beat sheap shearing into the game.  Wounds with high angle variables can also lead to flayed parts, but that's almost strictly descriptive at this point.

Quote from: Warlord255
Can severed parts be regenerated under the new system?

I haven't done healing yet, but this probably won't make it this time around.  New parts can grow in by having their appearance modifiers shift from 0 into positive territory, but inventory doesn't respect it going either way at this time.

Quote from: Footkerchief
I assume the subordinate-ness is just implied by the tissue layering order.

I hadn't gotten to the token yet -- there's a [SUBORDINATE_TO_TISSUE:<token>] thingy in hair.

Quote from: pengionofhonor
I really want giant sloths to be in the vanilla game.

I've been a megatherium fan forever.  I think I learned about them from my fossil books in elementary school.  They are quite likely to make it in at some point.

Quote from: Aqizzar
I can't wait to slice open a guy's back with a sword, then jam my fist into his torso like a mad puppeteer.

He he he, wrestling improvements and aimed shots will be needed for this sort of thing.  I think the most you'd be able to now is box a guy's various guts with (lucky?) strikes once there's an initial hack large enough to fit your hand.

Quote from: Neoskel
Must have gotten linked up to the game's spleen somehow. So every time he stabs a spleen in game he's actually stabbing the game's spleen and it goes "Arg! My spleen!" and goes unconscious.

Yeah, more or less, actually...  it was going out of bounds, and once it starts running free in memory, it can pretty much do whatever it wants.  It crashed on some organs other than the spleen in further tests but made it through others without an immediate problem.

Quote from: Erom
Quote from: Mephansteras
Question for Toady: Will any of these body changes (other then poisons) have any effect on Vermin? Or are they going to stay pretty much unchanged?

Another way of phrasing that is: Will vermin get more specific body definitions with this release, or are they going to stay very simplistic? Right now the difference between a bluejay and a fire snake is pretty minimal.
It's been mentioned that he wants to allow for more complex vermin bodies, but doesn't want to get to the point of having to track wounds for individual vermin (IE, vermin remain simple things without individual parts that can be wounded, but they do get different properties depending on their construction - so an Iron Rat might be immune to the weak attacks from a kitten, for example, but it would still insta-gib from an attack that could hurt it).

Standard "If I understood it correctly" disclaimer.

Yeah, that's right.  I'd actually like to track certain vermin wounds eventually, as there'd be a lot to do with that, but it shouldn't have the sort of standing info it has for a healthy large creature (or large vermin swarms would be impossible).  Things will slowly be moving over to vermin, but for this time I'm not able to promise anything other than the new venom system.

Quote
^^^ I couldn't tell if he meant "I'll have to redo the code" or "I'll have to redo the test so that when I slash open the gold-blooded dwarf, I get toasted by the gold vapor."

Yeah, it did what I expected, but since it only ended with one dead dwarf instead of two, there's obviously another experiment waiting to be run once temperature damage is back in.
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Hoborobo234

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1399 on: January 06, 2009, 03:00:41 pm »

This new update will be epic

*shudders*
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Rather than having them directly force you to mine adamantine, I would suggest that they give you strange moods that require adamantine. "Dig out the adamantine or Urist here goes insane and dies" is suitably vicious.

(It occurs to me that you can probably get "Lovecraft" as the random name of your fortress. That's when you know you're screwed.)

Mephansteras

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1400 on: January 06, 2009, 03:03:42 pm »

I love these giant answer posts. Thanks Toady!

New question (I think I always have new questions).

With the new changes to squad equipment orders, will this also effect hunters? I really don't need my hunter running around with my one stack of masterwork adamantine bolts to go kill groundhogs. I'd much prefer that he grab the lame base quality iron ones we have lying around.
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Random832

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1401 on: January 06, 2009, 03:06:24 pm »

With the new changes to squad equipment orders, will this also effect hunters? I really don't need my hunter running around with my one stack of masterwork adamantine bolts to go kill groundhogs. I'd much prefer that he grab the lame base quality iron ones we have lying around.

Really, spent metal bolts should be able to be reused (reforged if they broke) at minimal loss. Metal's metal, and if you have masterwork bolts that means you have a master weaponsmith.
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Mephansteras

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1402 on: January 06, 2009, 03:15:31 pm »

True, but these are slightly different issues. Restacking will be required before bolt reuse is really practical.

However, even once that's in place I still don't want my hunter grabbing my good bolts. That would mean that they aren't available for my champion marksdwarf when he needs them.
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Aqizzar

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1403 on: January 06, 2009, 03:25:03 pm »

Another Wall of Answers.  And at two in the afternoon no less.  Shouldn't you be asleep Toady?

The whole "boiling gold" thing does raise a lot of questions, which other people have mentioned.
Will gold gas condense into molten gold?  Or scatter into gold powder?
Can gold powder be melted into gold bars
Will molten gold cool into usable gold?  (Bar?  Ore?  Lump?)

I've never heard of a game that had a practical physics engine anywhere near this advanced.  Imagine there's problems getting the engine to smoothly recognize changing from one state to the other, since they're all tracked as different kinds of objects.
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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1404 on: January 06, 2009, 03:33:39 pm »

Will gold gas condense into molten gold?  Or scatter into gold powder?

Maybe the liquid state needs a "mist" sub-state (analogous to solids and powders) -- we already have this for water and magma, so why not other liquids too?  It could definitely make condensation act more sensibly.

Can gold powder be melted into gold bars

Ooh, sintering!  I'm not sure dwarves would have any use for it, though.
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Koji

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1405 on: January 06, 2009, 04:39:11 pm »

Metal boils at extremely high temperatures, and when it does, it goes away almost instantly. Does this work properly in the game, or does gold vapor hang around like steam? That would be weird--shouldn't the dwarf have just exploded and left behind slag and some very burnt bones?
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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1406 on: January 06, 2009, 07:39:52 pm »

I definitely like the chance to create Shambling Steamers, giant iron, wood, stone, and magma titans with steam blood.
The problem is that these should cool when dead, and start leaking simple water instead of steaming.
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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1407 on: January 06, 2009, 08:08:40 pm »

What about poisonous aerosols? Sarin as Blood for example? Can an dwarf poisoned by inhaling it?
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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1408 on: January 06, 2009, 08:16:50 pm »

I definitely like the chance to create Shambling Steamers, giant iron, wood, stone, and magma titans with steam blood.

Yeah that's gonna be fun.  :D

Toady, I have a question regarding this. I suppose blood will act like an object in the next version, or in the future. What if magma blood will hit a dwarf for example? "Realistically" [even tho it's weird to say that in this situation] it should damage the dwarf or it's armors/weapons [That should depend on the material of the armor/weapon of course].
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Patarak

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1409 on: January 06, 2009, 09:23:02 pm »

Any word on poisoned weapons this time around? I'm guessing it would involve a job that would merge a weapon with a stack of poison. The result would be a sword with a hypothetical "apply poison" modifier switched to positive and referencing the properties of the poison used, using the same mechanic to do so as stingers.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 09:26:52 pm by Patarak »
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