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[G-Flex]

I have a question regarding tissue/armour layers and damage dealing. 

If an iron sword strikes some steel plate armour and fails to penetrate it, and the damage is converted to bludgeoning (AKA the force of the blow is spread out over the plate), will bludgeoning damage be inflicted to the creature beneath the armour? 

That is, as my inexpert understanding of it goes, what tended to happen to sword strikes on chain and plate - unless the sword hit a weak point in the armour caused by poor forging, the wound inflicted would be a very serious bruise, regardless of how hard the armour material is, the force goes somewhere.  Better forged armour would, I presume, better spread the force around.

Yeah; you also have a more modern example that's equivalent in concept: Getting shot while you have a bulletproof vest on still imparts a huge amount of force to your body, and you can easily get a broken rib and/or other damage.

[Patarak]

Gentlemen; OBSERVE

From the plant raw:

[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]

Now, given the implied nature of this statement, it should be entirely possible to create a similar concoction:

USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:BLOOD_TEMPLATE

DISCUSS

[Thndr]

Gentlemen; OBSERVE

From the plant raw:

[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]

Now, given the implied nature of this statement, it should be entirely possible to create a similar concoction:

USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:BLOOD_TEMPLATE

DISCUSS

Rather have
[BLOOD:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]

Aint no true dwarf until when you bleed on magma men, you explode from your alcohol content.

[Warlord255]

Gentlemen; OBSERVE

From the plant raw:

[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]

Now, given the implied nature of this statement, it should be entirely possible to create a similar concoction:

USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:BLOOD_TEMPLATE

DISCUSS

...

...*jaw drops*

GENTLEMEN.
Dibs.

[Footkerchief]

Aint no true dwarf until when you bleed on magma men, you explode from your alcohol content.

This is a good point and it implies that the ALCOHOL_PLANT tag should have a percent parameter, like [ALCOHOL_PLANT:15] for dwarven wine or whatever.

Unrelated -- in the tissue layer plans, there's stuff like this:

[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:ARM:ARG1:2:ARG2:1:ARG3:1:ARG4:4]

Where presumably the numbers following the ARGs are the relative thicknesses.  How does this interact with RELATIVE_THICKNESS in the tissue definitions?

[Warlord255]

Ahem. Sorry to post again so soon, but;

I have a question regarding tissue/armour layers and damage dealing. 

If an iron sword strikes some steel plate armour and fails to penetrate it, and the damage is converted to bludgeoning (AKA the force of the blow is spread out over the plate), will bludgeoning damage be inflicted to the creature beneath the armour? 

That is, as my inexpert understanding of it goes, what tended to happen to sword strikes on chain and plate - unless the sword hit a weak point in the armour caused by poor forging, the wound inflicted would be a very serious bruise, regardless of how hard the armour material is, the force goes somewhere.  Better forged armour would, I presume, better spread the force around.

Additionally, if we're talking about a steel-skinned creature (Giant Magma Ants?) instead of a steel-armoured creature, is the force transfer handled differently?

Also, extra question I thought of while writing!  Armour quality and material strength:  Will they work as they currently do, as a multiplier of x1 to x2 (or whatever) to the strength?  Maybe there could be something more interesting, with some kind of check to see if the blow has hit a poorly-forged weak spot where the material is thinner or poorly joined or whatever, and the standard material effect happening if the check is passed?

Presumably, if layering works as it should, armor and clothing might literally be interpreted as "second skins". Cutting/piercing damage has to bypass it to damage the lower layers and bypass those in turn, while bludgeoning transfers through layers easier but at a loss of damage to each individual layer as the layers warrant.

[G-Flex]

Well, if you want to get RIDICULOUSLY technical, armor shouldn't be treated as a "second skin" in the sense that it isn't actually attached to the stuff underneath it, so forces and such won't transfer in exactly the same way. Also, something could penetrate armor but not touch your skin.

[Patarak]

So is anyone else going to mod in BLOOD ROOT that makes a drink of actual blood? I checked, the alcohol template doesn't have a [DRINK] tag or anything, so it seems that what is edible (or at least drinkable), is defined by the plant raws.

So, I could mod a plant that would give drink of steel, and it would be drinkable with no side-effects as far as I can deduce, although you would have to keep it very, very, very hot to keep it in a drinkable state.

[Aqizzar]

Toady- Does any of this work regarding bodies effect vermin?  What do you have planned for them?

[GaGrin]

Just a note on the armour thing:

Real suits of metal armour were always worn with some form of padding underneath (most commonly a garment call a Gambeson which is a quilted vest or shirt).  While a sheet of metal may not give as easily as skin or bone and will spread the force of a blow it does nothing to cushion it.

Infact maille armour (chain, chainmail - whatever you want to call it) is next to useless without some form of padding, because while it is very good at spreading the damage from piercing (because it flexes) and next to impossible to cut, it provides minimal protection against the actual impact (again, because its flexible).

Unlike plates however, its next to impossible to ruin a section of mail because at most you'll put holes in it, while a steel or iron plate can be dented and smashed (which can cause its own complications particularly in close fitting pieces like cuirasses or helms - or in articulated pieces like knee and elbow joints).

[Granite26]

So no more one-shoting dragons with wooden spears. 

You forget about the soft underbelly

hmmm not sure how this would be done... layers that only cover the back.  Is this possible?

Also, more obsessing on blood:  Sand is better bleeding out of mummies than time men...

[LumenPlacidum]

So no more one-shoting dragons with wooden spears. 

You forget about the soft underbelly

hmmm not sure how this would be done... layers that only cover the back.  Is this possible?

Also, more obsessing on blood:  Sand is better bleeding out of mummies than time men...

Make the back a separate body part and give it a much thicker layer?  Then use the AROUND argument with a number of about 50 to indicate that half the body is surrounded by that back bodypart.

[Granite26]

So no more one-shoting dragons with wooden spears. 

You forget about the soft underbelly

hmmm not sure how this would be done... layers that only cover the back.  Is this possible?

Also, more obsessing on blood:  Sand is better bleeding out of mummies than time men...

Make the back a separate body part and give it a much thicker layer?  Then use the AROUND argument with a number of about 50 to indicate that half the body is surrounded by that back bodypart.

Could work.

Oh, and the Modders would be forever greatful for a 'spawn critter here' cheat for testing creations  (Maybe turn off saving after you activate cheat mode, I don't know..)

[Random832]

How do the strength values for metals interact with their effectiveness as weapons and armor? I'm working on a raw converter and want to at least be able to give usable results for an input BLOCK_PERC and DAMAGE_PERC

[Tormy]

Toady, I have a question about castes. Some questions popped up in this topic. So, we are just wondering about the possible differences between the castes.  Is it possible that a caste has totally different creature tokes than other castes? Example: Caste X has NOFEAR, DAMBLOCK:10, NO_EAT, NOBONES for example, while Caste Y has DAMBLOCK:5 and nothing else?