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[Kardos]

I think if you hit something with enough bludgeoning force, it will break or fracture.  So for piercing weapons, maybe it will just 'fracture' that point in the armor, or something.  Whereas for cutting weapons like a sword edge or axe you would get a 'fracture' in the shape of a long gouge.  This would be fairly realistic imo, since 'cutting' is really just bludgeoning on a much finer point/line if you think about it.

[Footkerchief]

That's rather oversimplified, though. You can certainly cut a "stronger" material with a "weaker" one. It depends on a lot of things, like sharpness, thickness, how the force is applied, and whatever else.

For instance, here's a rather extreme example to illustrate the point: A 50-pound copper axe blade, sharpened extremely fine, should be able to penetrate a millimeter of good steel. I know that's ridiculous to use as an example, but it's just to show that there are more factors involved than a direct comparison of the materials, and saying "that's impossible!" just because one material is less inherently "strong" than the other.

It sounds like thickness itself probably will play a role in the calculations, certainly for tissue layers at least (Toady mentioned "a large layer of lardy rolls") and probably for armor as well.  But yeah, the particulars will be interesting.

[Neonivek]

Toady when items finally have wounds (or if rather) and other types of damage, will that mean that armor will start to act like a layer of metal around your character that needs to be breached and torn to do damage to the soft creature inside instead of being mostly like a magnetic field? (or heck will it be that way THIS release?)

Though I could interpret what you said differently... Afterall the sword didn't break... It just warped and altered its statistics until the point of worthlessness. So when it applies to other objects the Armor may not actually break or take "Wounds" so to speak, it could just lose structural integrity and cover until it is worthless, and unwearable, as armor.

[Akroma]

this post reminds me, are you ever going to include magnetism in DF ? Probably something for the magic arc. Imagine it, A whole new kind of trap, glueing the puny goblins to the ground by their iron boots, while the marksdwarves let loose some bolts

[Serg]

Or, checking the distance (head) from the magnet (ground) and multiplying it by the force/power of the magnet to instantly gib goblins in their own armor?

[Puller of the lever]

Hi everybody, I'm a new user.
I'm Italian and my english comprension isn't very good (euphemism!  ), so maybe I misunderstood this point.

In the incoming version, will the dispatching of army out of the embark tiles and the other features of the army arc be implemented, or will be only the improvements in squad control (and wounds, and all the other things of which you are talking by many pages) ?

More generally, the next version will have all the things that are wrote in the dev_next page, or only the yellow ones?

Ps: sorry for my language, I don't dare to think how this post appear to a english speaker. 

[G-Flex]

The yellow ones are the ones he's currently working on. The others will come later.

So we'll get better squad control, and so forth, but we won't be sending troops out on the world map just yet, as far as I know.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Only the yellow bits, squad control and wounds. This is only one of the first releases focused on the Army Arc.

And your english isn't the best, but far better than many I've seen out in the internet.

[Aqizzar]

Please, please, for Armok's sake please, say the "release the Berzerker!" debug-button is going to stay in for the final release.  And that hopefully what generates can be edited.  It would so damn useful for everyone else who likes to mess with the raws.

I hope so.  I already have the boiling material flow it uses for the molten metals and alcohols, so it shouldn't be too hard.  It would be cool to mix it with the poison effects when I get there.  I suppose powder blood should also be allowed now that I have a separate powder state.  Then you can be attacked by Time Men that have glass on the outside and sand on the inside, and I can be fired.  That might work better with a whole sand tissue layer though.

Righteous.

[Tormy]

Dear Toady, you have created a monster dwarf!



This dwarf > Captain Ironblood 

[Puller of the lever]

The yellow ones are the ones he's currently working on. The others will come later.

So we'll get better squad control, and so forth, but we won't be sending troops out on the world map just yet, as far as I know.

Only the yellow bits, squad control and wounds. This is only one of the first releases focused on the Army Arc.

And your english isn't the best, but far better than many I've seen out in the internet.

Oh, ok.
It's a pity, I hoped to send under-equipped recruits towards a glorious death around the world, but I think that I'll have to wait. 

Thanks Sean. 

[Neonivek]

Well right now Puller Toady is working almost exclusively on additions that will break save compatability, as updates that will make your save useless, so that after the next release you will be able to keep your saves for a very long time.

Also second question if I can ask it...

Do Siege weapons actually damage enemies or do they simply die if struck? Will this mean your going to change Siege weapons to go from "Instantly murder Megabeasts" to "Be effective against them"?

[LumenPlacidum]

Huh, I just noticed blood is only present in the new raws as a material template... are the "blood types" still hardcoded?

I just haven't gotten to bleeding wounds yet, so I haven't defined blood in the raws yet, as I'm not sure what I'll end up with.  I was thinking of tracking blood events on the ground with a bit more precision, as there generally aren't a zillion of them and it's currently eating up a ton of map bits, so I'm not sure if the current blood type notion will survive.  It'll take some looking at though.  Everything about blood should make it out to the raws, though that isn't something I can promise.

Hmmm... Gaseous blood...

I hope so.  I already have the boiling material flow it uses for the molten metals and alcohols, so it shouldn't be too hard.  It would be cool to mix it with the poison effects when I get there.  I suppose powder blood should also be allowed now that I have a separate powder state.  Then you can be attacked by Time Men that have glass on the outside and sand on the inside, and I can be fired.  That might work better with a whole sand tissue layer though.

Wouldn't it be as simple as having a [BLOOD] token to be placed on some layer?  Or even [BLOOD:_material_] to simplify if we're going to have many layers of blood.  The total amount of blood would be derived from the size of bodyparts and thickness of those layers, and the loss of enough of it would impair the creature.  The blood material would likely have to be a fluid or pseudo-fluid.  Also, if at any point the blood freezes so that it cannot flow any more, the creature will die.

Oh, and if we have fluid layers that do not fill the requirements of blood, can those be sprayed around when the creature is wounded enough to pierce that layer also, despite that it will do very little to adversely affect the creatures health?  Then, we can have some interesting defense mechanisms on creatures that, when wounded, release magma to discourage attack.

[Narmio]

I have a question regarding tissue/armour layers and damage dealing. 

If an iron sword strikes some steel plate armour and fails to penetrate it, and the damage is converted to bludgeoning (AKA the force of the blow is spread out over the plate), will bludgeoning damage be inflicted to the creature beneath the armour? 

That is, as my inexpert understanding of it goes, what tended to happen to sword strikes on chain and plate - unless the sword hit a weak point in the armour caused by poor forging, the wound inflicted would be a very serious bruise, regardless of how hard the armour material is, the force goes somewhere.  Better forged armour would, I presume, better spread the force around.

Additionally, if we're talking about a steel-skinned creature (Giant Magma Ants?) instead of a steel-armoured creature, is the force transfer handled differently?

Also, extra question I thought of while writing!  Armour quality and material strength:  Will they work as they currently do, as a multiplier of x1 to x2 (or whatever) to the strength?  Maybe there could be something more interesting, with some kind of check to see if the blow has hit a poorly-forged weak spot where the material is thinner or poorly joined or whatever, and the standard material effect happening if the check is passed?

[Duke 2.0]

 Well mind you with a layer of leather armor or some thick clothes such damage can be avoided. And if Toady programed the whole force transference thing in, such materials would work well to reduce such problems.

 Still, I want to see enemies with skin made of the hardest substance known to man but bones made of toothpicks. Blunt weapons just got more fun when you can cave stuff in and break bones better.