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Author Topic: The NEW Future of the Fortress  (Read 349453 times)

Mephansteras

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #780 on: December 05, 2008, 04:07:21 pm »

Off the subject of Borgles...

Toady, do the material changes mean that constructed items will now properly respond to the heat of Magma? No more wooden magma channels and whatnot? Or is that still not something the game checks for?
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PTTG??

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #781 on: December 05, 2008, 04:11:15 pm »

Off the subject of Borgles...

Toady, do the material changes mean that constructed items will now properly respond to the heat of Magma? No more wooden magma channels and whatnot? Or is that still not something the game checks for?
I agree! I must flood human towns with magma and have their homes be destroyed and obliterated!
At very least, if a wall would be damaged by temperature, have it collapse and drop it's construction item in it's square, which would burn or melt appropriately.
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Glacies

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #782 on: December 05, 2008, 06:59:11 pm »

Dwarf lung men and borgle bats are both finding a way into my game.

MMad

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"Ask not what your fortress can do for you - ask what you can do for your fortress."
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Jirou

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #784 on: December 05, 2008, 08:28:56 pm »


ASAULT:ACCEPTABLE
KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:ACCEPTABLE
SLAVERY:UNTHINKABLE


Sounds like someplace I know
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numerobis

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #785 on: December 05, 2008, 09:18:04 pm »

Off the subject of Borgles...

Toady, do the material changes mean that constructed items will now properly respond to the heat of Magma? No more wooden magma channels and whatnot? Or is that still not something the game checks for?
I understand there are two problems with magma and heat: (1) how to avoid the ridiculous outcome of having the magma pipe melt through everything, since the obsidian it's encased in should melt.  (2) how to avoid having your dwarves catch on fire automatically every time they try to use a magma forge.

For both these questions, "hard-code it to not be stupid" isn't a very good, because it's difficult to maintain any kind of internal consistency when you start hard-coding.
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Arkose

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #786 on: December 06, 2008, 04:23:57 am »

I understand there are two problems with magma and heat: (1) how to avoid the ridiculous outcome of having the magma pipe melt through everything, since the obsidian it's encased in should melt.  (2) how to avoid having your dwarves catch on fire automatically every time they try to use a magma forge.

About (1), this actually shouldn't be a problem if heat flow and specific heats are handled properly. (I know specific heat at least is in the raws, but I don't know if the behavior is correct.) Near surface magma is almost always at temperatures only slightly above the temperature at which it will cool into something solid like obsidian, while most everything on the surface is significantly cooler; as a result, you can get obsidian quenching around almost anything at the surface, even highly flamable things like trees:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The lava/magma that next encounters what the first wave quenched against needs to melt or break that obsidian shell before it can progress any farther, resulting in lava/magma that only spreads out until the heat flow at its edges becomes too low to stop the formation of obsidian walls that the magma doesn't possess enough pressure or temperature to overcome.

(2) is a bit more difficult; my hunch is that Toady's earlier experiments involved constant (or heavily buffered) magma temperatures, or that air and rock was taking heat from the magma too quickly for the simulation to dissapate it in a realistic fashion. Or maybe dwarves and other creatures need some intermediate level of being burnt between "feeling good" and "OH GOD MY BEARD IS ON FIRE". (I wouldn't be suprised if Toady planned burn scars with this release anyways; it would be nice for magma forge workers to get burns and singed beards just through their normal working conditions. Other materials should probably burn and singe too so that their clothes don't suddenly go up in flames.)
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DJ

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #787 on: December 06, 2008, 01:49:48 pm »

"It's Ove-
-What kind of name is Vegeta? What is that, some kind of vegetable juice drink?
A condiment, actually.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegeta_(food)
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Akroma

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #788 on: December 06, 2008, 02:11:57 pm »

keep in mind that walls reacting to magma properly would also mean that all stone except for bauxite would melt when in contact with magma


imagine the bugs, when entire maps completely melt on embark
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Neonivek

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #789 on: December 06, 2008, 02:15:02 pm »

keep in mind that walls reacting to magma properly would also mean that all stone except for bauxite would melt when in contact with magma


imagine the bugs, when entire maps completely melt on embark

Welll the further Magma is from the source the cooler it should get...

After a certain distance ordinary stone walls SHOULD be able to contain it

Bauxite seems to function via magic

Unfortunately we arn't getting that for a while.
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Tormy

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #790 on: December 06, 2008, 04:16:49 pm »

"It's Ove-
-What kind of name is Vegeta? What is that, some kind of vegetable juice drink?
A condiment, actually.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegeta_(food)

We went OT again, but ah well.
That is an excellent condiment. It's a must have ingredient for many foods, at least here in Hungary.  :)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Neonivek

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #791 on: December 06, 2008, 04:46:27 pm »

You live in Hungry Tormy? Hmm the more you know

How the heck did this conversation go towards Vegeta?
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Tormy

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #792 on: December 06, 2008, 04:47:59 pm »

You live in Hungry Tormy? Hmm the more you know

How the heck did this conversation go towards Vegeta?

Argh...the good old Hungry - Hungary joke.  ;D
I am not sure that why do we talk about Vegeta either. We went OT as usual...but ah well. :P
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Neonivek

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #793 on: December 06, 2008, 05:32:27 pm »

Opps Sorry Tormy.
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Dareon Clearwater

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #794 on: December 06, 2008, 05:40:01 pm »

Borgle hee~ Borgle huu~ Borgle ho~ Borgle ha ha!~

*cough*
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It's like you're all trying to outdo each other in sheer useless pedantry.
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