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Author Topic: The NEW Future of the Fortress  (Read 349167 times)

Jiri Petru

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #420 on: November 10, 2008, 01:41:44 pm »

I hope Toady won't make anything like varied clothing sizes. If there is one thing Dwarf Fortress doesn't need, it's more micromanagement.

And, more realism doesn't always mean more fun. There is a thing called "abstraction", which can really improve playability at times.
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Kardos

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #421 on: November 10, 2008, 02:21:45 pm »

Well, If the hauling system were good, there wouldn't be all that much micromanagement.  As it is, most production time is spent trying to get specific item type x to location a, b and d, but not c.  I would be happy if Toady implemented clothing sizes, but put in a hack to suppress that until hauling works better.  Or do the clothing size after hauling improvements, whichever is easier for him to program.
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Heavy Flak

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #422 on: November 10, 2008, 02:31:15 pm »

I hope Toady won't make anything like varied clothing sizes. If there is one thing Dwarf Fortress doesn't need, it's more micromanagement.

And, more realism doesn't always mean more fun. There is a thing called "abstraction", which can really improve playability at times.

I'm not sure how feasible this is, but if the stacking system was revamped this would be less of a problem.  You could have all the variety of clothes you wanted, and have it all stacked into an abstract "Shirts [8]" stack which has three Size 8 shirts, four Size 5 shirts, and 1 Size 6 shirt.  This could expand to food, weapons... really, just about anything.

Assuming that's anywhere close to feasible, of course.
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Duke 2.0

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #423 on: November 10, 2008, 02:33:43 pm »

 Now mind you creatures can wear things too large or too small to an extent. It will just be horribly baggy or horribly tight. This would produce a bad thought, of course. I support different clothing sizes. I support sentients wanting to wear things in their size, but will wear things that fit to an extent if that is all. I support tailors and armorsmiths being able to resize armor and clothing. Of course, if the clothers and armorors are not skilled in their craft they stand a chance at damaging the item they are working on.

 DF would not be too difficult with different clothing sizes. We just need to make sure that a race will generally have only a couple different sizes of armor. And make sure resizing is not too impossible. We should still be able to have a master armorsmith resize that masterpiece adamantine armor for a smaller sentient.

 Also, the surrent dev notes suggests an amusing bug resulting in ribs outside of the torso. Don't we currently have a mod like that?
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Footkerchief

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #424 on: November 10, 2008, 02:36:56 pm »

I hope Toady won't make anything like varied clothing sizes. If there is one thing Dwarf Fortress doesn't need, it's more micromanagement.

And, more realism doesn't always mean more fun. There is a thing called "abstraction", which can really improve playability at times.

I'm not sure how feasible this is, but if the stacking system was revamped this would be less of a problem.  You could have all the variety of clothes you wanted, and have it all stacked into an abstract "Shirts [8]" stack which has three Size 8 shirts, four Size 5 shirts, and 1 Size 6 shirt.  This could expand to food, weapons... really, just about anything.

Assuming that's anywhere close to feasible, of course.

This doesn't solve the main problem, which is that you would still have to produce certain numbers of each size.  E.g. equipping your 30-dwarf military with plate requires checking each dwarf to see how many need "large," how many need "small," etc.  That's the part that involves excessive micro.

That said, we currently have very little knowledge on how size variation will work.
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LumenPlacidum

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #425 on: November 10, 2008, 02:46:42 pm »

I like the armor sizes if only for the fact that resizing would probably train the skill and take much less material than making tons of copper high boots.
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PTTG??

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #426 on: November 10, 2008, 03:14:54 pm »

This is a miscellaneous note, but it needs to be said: Every, single, recorded wolf attack on a human in real life- every one- was an attack by a rabid wolf. In DF worlds, either Rabies is more contagious than the common cold, or adventurers are actually made of raw spam.
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Rockphed

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #427 on: November 10, 2008, 03:23:54 pm »

This is a miscellaneous note, but it needs to be said: Every, single, recorded wolf attack on a human in real life- every one- was an attack by a rabid wolf. In DF worlds, either Rabies is more contagious than the common cold, or adventurers are actually made of raw spam.

Do you have a source on that?
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Walliard

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #428 on: November 10, 2008, 03:25:39 pm »

This doesn't solve the main problem, which is that you would still have to produce certain numbers of each size.  E.g. equipping your 30-dwarf military with plate requires checking each dwarf to see how many need "large," how many need "small," etc.  That's the part that involves excessive micro.

That said, we currently have very little knowledge on how size variation will work.

That's why I think this would work well with a system where every dwarf's clothing needs show up on a single screen. From there, you could, with a single keystroke, send any particular job to the manager ("Make plus-size trousers for Urist"), and perhaps an option to show/hide professions so that you can prioritize your legendary miners over your hauling grunts.
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Techhead

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #429 on: November 10, 2008, 03:34:30 pm »

Quote
Remembered to make ribs internal.
Imagine what would happen if he had forgotten.
Creepiest bug ever?
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Random832

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #430 on: November 10, 2008, 03:50:53 pm »

This is a miscellaneous note, but it needs to be said: Every, single, recorded wolf attack on a human in real life- every one- was an attack by a rabid wolf. In DF worlds, either Rabies is more contagious than the common cold, or adventurers are actually made of raw spam.

I thought that animals that attack humans were considered "rabies until proven otherwise", and unless someone cares about them they're killed (if caught) and the victim always gets rabies shots. That might skew the statistics, I could easily see the occasional attack where the wolf is actually provoked/starving/whatever being written off as rabies.

But anyway, just because they don't attack humans doesn't mean they don't attack dwarves.
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Duke 2.0

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #431 on: November 10, 2008, 04:02:37 pm »


 Most likely Elves made most animals hostile just to dick around with us.

 Alas, Dwarves will soon pollute the enviroment so much they will all be rendered sterile. Take that Elves!
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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #432 on: November 10, 2008, 04:05:18 pm »

Quote
Remembered to make ribs internal.
Imagine what would happen if he had forgotten.
Creepiest bug ever?

Considering that the heart and lungs are probably now encapsulated by the ribs, the main result might be swift death.
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numerobis

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #433 on: November 10, 2008, 04:28:36 pm »

This is a miscellaneous note, but it needs to be said: Every, single, recorded wolf attack on a human in real life- every one- was an attack by a rabid wolf. In DF worlds, either Rabies is more contagious than the common cold, or adventurers are actually made of raw spam.
I don't remember the lines "My, what a foamy mouth you have / The better to display my illness, my dear."  So there's a recorded non-rabid wolf attack on a human.

Wolves (and other predators) attack things they can kill without getting hurt.  Children and sheep and bambies, basically.  And dwarves are child-sized.
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Tormy

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #434 on: November 10, 2008, 04:29:48 pm »

I hope Toady won't make anything like varied clothing sizes. If there is one thing Dwarf Fortress doesn't need, it's more micromanagement.

I couldn't agree more. Something like this would be a micromanagement nightmare.  :-X
I am wondering that how is this gonna work, but I am pretty sure that Toady doesn't want to raise the "micromanagement level" itself.  ;)
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