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Author Topic: The NEW Future of the Fortress  (Read 349324 times)

Neonivek

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #375 on: November 06, 2008, 07:57:02 pm »

ARMOK 1 WAS 3D!?! Or at least Isometric!?!
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Tormy

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #376 on: November 06, 2008, 08:10:23 pm »

ARMOK 1 WAS 3D!?! Or at least Isometric!?!

Yep something like that. I was surprised also when I seen some Armok 1 screenshots back in time.  :)
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Neonivek

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #377 on: November 06, 2008, 08:13:12 pm »

Dang... I really gotta get myself a copy of that game...

Dang it... I cannot find that old page anymore...

I think the classical Armok pages are dead... ohh well.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 08:21:51 pm by Neonivek »
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Willfor

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #378 on: November 06, 2008, 08:49:13 pm »

I don't see ... I got distracted by hair metal guitar lessons on youtube. >___>

This would have been much funnier otherwise.
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Toady One

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #379 on: November 07, 2008, 03:33:13 am »

Quote from: MagicJuggler
While we're blessed with your almighty presence, what has been your general attitude regarding the request for more building-block materials such as rotatable/movable building components?

Quote from: umiman
Because of the sheer amount of redesigning and content, will there be new additions to the Dwarf Fortress vocabulary to cope with it? Take for example say... potential RNG martial arts styles or creative art pieces.

Generally when I add a new nameable thing I add new words (you can look near the end of the word file and tell what I was adding sometimes), but there's nothing this time, I think...  I'm not sure.  Map features maybe.  When I get to the martial arts stuff I most probably will.

Quote from: Footkerchief
Is skill synergy getting added along with all the other skill/att changes?

Some of it, particularly with weapons I think.  I'm not doing anything with profession skills because I haven't gotten to those in general.  I might gut them as I planned to do more along the Armok 1 lines later on, but I haven't decided yet, and certainly not for this release.

Quote from: Fieari
Since you're overhauling the body mechanics, are you going to make it so that redundant parts can be an asset?  Having two hearts for example could make it possible to survive the loss of one, likewise with heads.  Or the two parts could be given different jobs, like one head is the emotions, the other head the skills?

You can already give different parts different jobs, if you add them separately, but you'd have to do the faces again and so on.  There are body categories now that somewhat alleviate that but it's not fully implemented (ie some things still only work by type or token, not category, and I'm not sure I'll get all of them this time).

As far as redundancy, it's going to depend on the new wound system.  It guts everything, so anything is possibly, but that also means new or old holes might show up or remain.  I'm going to do my best and I've set aside quite a bit of time for it, anyway.

Quote from: Rooster
How long army arc is being developed, 'cause I'm going to be worried if it will take more than 2.5D arc

The army arc is being riddled with various other arcs, so it's hard to measure.  A long time until it's done, but other arcs will also be finished around the same time or before, probably.  It turns out I didn't like focusing on just one thing, which probably isn't a surprise.

Quote from: Akroma
now it is offical, we have more detail than even the goriest games ever made

Don't they have wii games where you tear the johnson in half with the nunchuk that get banned in countries and stuff?  I guess people will mod that in.  I wonder about my news sources.

Quote from: Footkerchief
I wonder if "send in a chitin tissue to fill the skin role in the exoskeleton plan" means that you actually create the chitin in the creature material list and then send that material.  I suppose for things like iron men you would also have to be able to pass materials from outside the creature definition, i.e. iron.

Yeah.

Quote from: Sir Nils Olav
Will we be able to determine certain body layers' hardness?

For this release, yeah, you will be able to specify material properties that have combat ramifications for each tissue layer/material of the body parts.  I don't think I posted the new material definitions...  many of the hardness-type properties don't have use yet and won't for a while, but I did go kind of nuts with it, because I wanted it to last a while.  It's a somewhat troubling list.  In particular:

Quote from: Footkerchief
(catchall for tensile, shear, compressive, etc.)

C..  catchall?  I probably should have.  I was bad again.

Quote from: Arkose
Upper Incisors, Lower Incisors, Upper Canines, Lower Canines, Upper Molars and Lower Molars?

I think I did upper front, upper lower, left back upper, right back upper, right back lower, right back upper...  the lack of differentiated canines was calling for specification, but that would make me differentiate them all.  This is the tension I might have mentioned on this.  My solution thus far is to assign names for members of the groups without adding new body parts defs.  Not settled yet.

Quote from: umiman
I'm still curious if with all this body detail if there would be sexual organs.

I'm not doing anything yet aside from specifying the gender (so the babies come from the right morph).  My main thing for doing morphs was actual things like antmen and so on, where they can be used for proper castes (which is the reason I'd been using the word caste, though morph might be better).

Quote from: Fieari
So Toady went to an Obama victory celebration party last night, I take it?

I'm in the middle of nowhere, so I was with my brother and my parents watching TV.  I don't have a TV, not that you need one to get results.  We still had pizza and beer though.  Only six bottles though, hence my comment.

Quote from: Kardos
I'm just thankful Toady isn't (hopefully) adding cavities and skin cancer.

I can't say which one would come first, but I can't say I'd rule either one out.  All for it, really.  Not just yet though.

Quote from: LumenPlacidum
I hope the fact that the map changes have relatively few numerical points is just an indication that each point is a bit bigger than in the other things.

Yeah, those are a bit more dense than some of the others.  It's kind of a mix of very fun and very not fun to work on as well.

Quote from: lots of people
Your priorities suck!

I dunno.  I'm all right with what I'm doing.  I don't feel like I'm floundering at all, whereas with Armok 1 it was pretty clear, even at the time.  I think the differences between the sort of thing I'm working on and working on "game" are a bit more stark at this time because in the large rewrite I have to start with the most basic elements first (as you can see a bit from the breakdown in the last dev_now).  Certainly it's understandable if somebody gets sick of the wait or the game in general.
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Footkerchief

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #380 on: November 07, 2008, 04:03:52 am »

Quote from: Sir Nils Olav
Will we be able to determine certain body layers' hardness?

For this release, yeah, you will be able to specify material properties that have combat ramifications for each tissue layer/material of the body parts.  I don't think I posted the new material definitions...  many of the hardness-type properties don't have use yet and won't for a while, but I did go kind of nuts with it, because I wanted it to last a while.  It's a somewhat troubling list.  In particular:

Quote from: Footkerchief
(catchall for tensile, shear, compressive, etc.)

C..  catchall?  I probably should have.  I was bad again.

Well that kicks ass.
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korora

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #381 on: November 07, 2008, 09:25:47 am »

For what it's worth, I think your priorities are awesome.
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Random832

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #382 on: November 07, 2008, 10:57:53 am »

Quote from: Footkerchief
(catchall for tensile, shear, compressive, etc.)

C..  catchall?  I probably should have.  I was bad again.

Separate tensile strength will make it easier to make a realistic cave-in/collapse system later, anyway.
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Mephansteras

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #383 on: November 07, 2008, 11:11:00 am »

I think all this new body typing stuff will add another good element to the game. It's not the stuff I'm personally looking forward to the most, but I'm patient. And it'll still make everything more fun, so why should we stress about it?

Edit: Just thought of a question. Are any of these changes going to have an effect on the world gen combat? Perhaps even let megabeasts not suck during world gen?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 11:15:05 am by Mephansteras »
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PTTG??

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #384 on: November 07, 2008, 11:59:15 am »

Today's Toady's ETA:

Time Elapsed:   20
# Complete:   170
Time Remaining:   132.35
End Date:   03/18/09
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MagicJuggler

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #385 on: November 07, 2008, 12:14:24 pm »

Quote from: MagicJuggler
While we're blessed with your almighty presence, what has been your general attitude regarding the request for more building-block materials such as rotatable/movable building components?

Quote from: umiman
Because of the sheer amount of redesigning and content, will there be new additions to the Dwarf Fortress vocabulary to cope with it? Take for example say... potential RNG martial arts styles or creative art pieces.

Generally when I add a new nameable thing I add new words (you can look near the end of the word file and tell what I was adding sometimes), but there's nothing this time, I think...  I'm not sure.  Map features maybe.  When I get to the martial arts stuff I most probably will.

*Looks and notices no reply to his quote...was this an error?
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Tormy

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #386 on: November 07, 2008, 12:20:07 pm »

I think all this new body typing stuff will add another good element to the game. It's not the stuff I'm personally looking forward to the most, but I'm patient. And it'll still make everything more fun, so why should we stress about it?

Edit: Just thought of a question. Are any of these changes going to have an effect on the world gen combat? Perhaps even let megabeasts not suck during world gen?

Well, these "body typing stuff" will enchance the combat system, thus it will be better and more realistic in the same time. That is a good thing, isn't it?  ;)
..as for your question: I doubt that these body related changes will have an effect on world gen combat.
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Neonivek

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #387 on: November 07, 2008, 12:47:29 pm »

For what it's worth, I think your priorities are awesome.

It is mostly because people can't see that far ahead and thus have trouble seeing why Toady is doing what he is doing and thus attribute his current changes as some sort of whimsicle tangent similar to reading comic books when one should be doing their homework.

The reason why Toady is dealing a lot with body structure now is that he doesnt want to break save compatability. He is tackling this down now rather then over several arcs so people don't lose their saves over any changes he adds in later.

That and there is quite a bit of stuff I said before, such as this is an attempt to remove godlyness vs. Competence problems.

Note: Wow I made a lot of silly word substitutions in this message. Hope I got them all out.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 12:50:03 pm by Neonivek »
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BishopX

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #388 on: November 07, 2008, 04:16:25 pm »

If there a possibility of a release once the wounds are updated? Because that's honestly one of my big points of annoyance right now.
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Patarak

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #389 on: November 07, 2008, 05:18:25 pm »

Toady, is there any developement reason why you can't make intermediate releases that include all the wrapped up features you've finished on but leaving out the bits you're working on still?

You are such a jerk. :P
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