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Author Topic: The NEW Future of the Fortress  (Read 353414 times)

Aqizzar

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #255 on: October 20, 2008, 09:43:04 pm »

Why are those guys carrying potatoes in their tights?

On mind-attributes, I had assumed that musicality covered just that, and creativity (inaccurately) covered physical art like decoration.  I would submit that a third creative area, erudity or something, would cover artfulness with language.

Toady: Will agility and speed still overlap?  Also, will there be any provision for a distinct Perception attribute?  Maybe two different stats - physical Perception for actual senses, and mental Astuteness for paying attention to things.
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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #256 on: October 20, 2008, 10:03:27 pm »

Mental attributes are going to make going insane really awesome.
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Silleh Boy

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #257 on: October 20, 2008, 10:06:53 pm »

Are Grasp/Stance strikes going to be set up (at least somewhere down the line.) so that for example, when punching someone, you'll have weighting towards the upper body of a foe, so you won't punch their third toe, left foot quite so often? (unless they're against something like a titan, that is.)

MagicJuggler

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #258 on: October 20, 2008, 10:12:02 pm »

Musicality is an intrinsic understanding of those sorts of things.  There will be several skills when the time comes (particular instruments, categories of instruments, singing, rhythm [which could also come up with dancing], etc.).  Enough of what I read suggested that it deserved its own spot, but of course there are going to be issues.  I'd personally be all for splitting up analytical ability into a few more, as the current setup doesn't account for all the mathematicians I've met, but any system is going to have splits and joins that don't cover everything or cover too much.

Out of curiosity, will we be able to hook up percussion cams to a waterflow, that we can create programmable hydropowered instruments (Similar to in the Book of Ingenious Devices?)
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Neonivek

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #259 on: October 20, 2008, 10:18:06 pm »

There is so much I want to ask about Toady and his plans for Martial arts, or lack thereof, but I am under the impression that it is either a secret or he is never really planning on developing it into that dramatic of a system.
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Toady One

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #260 on: October 20, 2008, 10:32:19 pm »

Speed is sort of a weird thing that won't be established until I get to the body part of the countdown.  Right now it'll depend on strength + agility, but really it should also depend on physical dimensions as well.  That can kind of be implied by strength + agility, but to get good description paragraphs based on appearance, the atts + one size variable aren't sufficient.  In a way this is a start of the custom attributes, as they'd depend on the creatures.  For creatures without extra appearance attributes (I won't have spend time coming up with them for sharks and so on, most likely, not for a long while anyway), speed will probably depend on strength and agility equally.

Creativity isn't just for artwork really, but any form of creative endeavor.  I think spatial sense might come up somewhat in the visual arts in addition to creative and the specific skills (eg painting/the existing dwarf craft skills).  The "linguistic ability" attribute was meant to cover in part "artfulness with language" both in speech and writing in addition to ability to learn to speak and read additional languages.  Writing a poem might use linguistic(att)+creativity(att)+poetry(sk), maybe, in addition to skill with the target language in general, in speech, and in the writing system, and depending on the sort of poem, other skills might also bring a minor benefit such as rhythm and some of the other musical skills.  As long as you get enough feedback on why your poem sucks, you should get an idea of what's going into it, he he he.

Yeah, I don't really have anything for stuff like "paying attention" aside from the vague Spatial Sense att and Situational Awareness skill.  Sort of a matter of which splits are needed again.  I don't feel uncomfortable having a lot of things under those umbrellas though.  Splitting the senses might be good, and that might lead to something like the aforementioned custom atts depending on which senses the creature has.

Having all strikes (not just punches) hit sensible locations is up on dev I think (Req230 is related, but the thing I'm thinking of might have been from Armok 1).  It's already in, somewhat, but it's not very noticeable, as its just a weighting depending on the part type (stance parts are weighted 7 times less than upper body parts for example).  Doing further refinements is Combat Arcish, and I'm not sure when it'll come up.

Out of curiosity, will we be able to hook up percussion cams to a waterflow, that we can create programmable hydropowered instruments (Similar to in the Book of Ingenious Devices?)

Only if there's a specific push toward that.  It hasn't been on my list.

There is so much I want to ask about Toady and his plans for Martial arts, or lack thereof, but I am under the impression that it is either a secret or he is never really planning on developing it into that dramatic of a system.

The only plans I currently have are aligned more or less with what was planned and already implemented in Armok 1.  On top of the existing skills, there'd be styles and paths within those styles as well as specific techniques, all of which have their uses/bonuses/minuses and you could become proficient in them through practice.  In a magickish world, they could start to turn that way as you become very skilled.  The non-magical parts are planned for the Combat Arc.  It's mentioned in no more detail than what I've put here in Core73, and probably in the old armok notes.
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Neonivek

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #261 on: October 20, 2008, 10:42:08 pm »

So basically in a magic world martial arts starts to resemble something closer to magic?

Will it be set skill paths or do you plan on allowing the game itself to add and alter it each time? (or have you not decided yet?)
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MagicJuggler

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #262 on: October 20, 2008, 10:43:09 pm »

Out of curiosity, why is Magic in the combat arc? Is it because magic will solely be used for direct effects such as fireballs/etc. rather than for long-term ritual purpose (e.g. raindance/etc)
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Toady One

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #263 on: October 20, 2008, 10:50:15 pm »

Wait, what?  Is magic in the combat arc?  Is there a typo somewhere?

Well, worlds can have magic in all sorts of different ways, and my main thing there is going to be world gen parameters.  The ability for martial arts to have a magical component is certainly not unheard of, and so would often occur, but I don't really plan on having a stock notion in the raws of magic (aside from current and future abilities for certain creatures, which we've already got and will likely continue on in that way).

Martial arts are the sort of things I'd randomize each time (as with magical arts) in my own worlds and the vanilla game, but I'd be open to allow raws for them as I'm sure people have their favorites and stuff they'd like in their modded worlds.
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Neonivek

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #264 on: October 20, 2008, 10:52:32 pm »

Thank you Toady for your quick, concise, and honest answers.
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MagicJuggler

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #265 on: October 20, 2008, 10:55:27 pm »

Wait, what?  Is magic in the combat arc?  Is there a typo somewhere?

Well, worlds can have magic in all sorts of different ways, and my main thing there is going to be world gen parameters.  The ability for martial arts to have a magical component is certainly not unheard of, and so would often occur, but I don't really plan on having a stock notion in the raws of magic (aside from current and future abilities for certain creatures, which we've already got and will likely continue on in that way).

Martial arts are the sort of things I'd randomize each time (as with magical arts) in my own worlds and the vanilla game, but I'd be open to allow raws for them as I'm sure people have their favorites and stuff they'd like in their modded worlds.

I misread; it said that the non-magicish parts. The non really makes a difference. So no typo. Perhaps Magic should be given its own arc just for setting up the basic system, and the other arcs work on how to properly interact with it. (E.g. magic and the Caravan Arc; casing some form of weight-reduction on stone blocks to reduce their weight, thus increasing the maximum wagon load/other strategic uses of magic)...

While we're blessed with your almighty presence, what has been your general attitude regarding the request for more building-block materials such as rotatable/movable building components?
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YojimboUsaka

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #266 on: October 20, 2008, 11:12:21 pm »

Not sure if it has been mentioned before but the nested skill system used in Rolemaster might be an usefull example.  You had a broad skill like MELEE, this gives you skill in a broad range of things like sword, spear, mace etc.  You can then specialize within that category i.e. sword.  Your overall skill with a spear is MELEE, but your skill with sword would be MELEE + SWORD. 

It was more difficult to train the broad skill of MELEE then the specialized skill of SWORD so the system rewarded a focused training plan.

They did this for all categories of skills from survival to stargazing.

Yoj
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MagicJuggler

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #267 on: October 20, 2008, 11:15:51 pm »

Gurps did that as well. You had broad skills like Science! that were ranked very hard and from there you could buy more specialized skills at easier levels defaulting to the broad skill minus a certain level. And you could buy maneuvers at reduced cost to the skill, so Fleche would be a maneuver under fencing, etc.
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umiman

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #268 on: October 21, 2008, 12:10:20 am »

Here's a question:

Because of the sheer amount of redesigning and content, will there be new additions to the Dwarf Fortress vocabulary to cope with it? Take for example say... potential RNG martial arts styles or creative art pieces. Certainly the current vocabulary isn't large enough without being overly repetitive if more and more things need to make more use of it.

MagicJuggler

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #269 on: October 21, 2008, 12:23:47 am »

Here's a question:

Because of the sheer amount of redesigning and content, will there be new additions to the Dwarf Fortress vocabulary to cope with it? Take for example say... potential RNG martial arts styles or creative art pieces. Certainly the current vocabulary isn't large enough without being overly repetitive if more and more things need to make more use of it.

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