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Author Topic: The NEW Future of the Fortress  (Read 353714 times)

LASD

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2008, 02:08:47 pm »

Yay! Does this includes water?
I think you can already get water in Adventure Mode with a waterskin. So, No.  ;D

The plans truly are amazing. There's not one thing I'm not waiting for, but my most anticipated parts are the premilinary Caravan Arc parts, ruler succession (and births) in regular game and the randomized creatures, plants and megabeasts. Oh, and also the adventurer home/hovel.

Seems like getting all these things done will take quite a while, but they're so huge it doesn't matter one bit.

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Zemat

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2008, 02:27:34 pm »

I think you can already get water in Adventure Mode with a waterskin. So, No.  ;D

But how? Can I refill my waterskin? I have never managed to do that before.

By the way, Toady. Are you gonna make a release with every yellow point complete or are you going to hold it until a segment is complete?
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Zwergner

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2008, 02:32:40 pm »


But how? Can I refill my waterskin? I have never managed to do that before.


Yep, here's how.  Just make sure your waterskin isn't in your backpack.
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Nukeitall

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2008, 02:37:09 pm »

I'm pleased with the current version, and though it is shortsighted, pigheaded, and selfish of me, I'd still like to see some performance optimizations go in. I understand the early state of the game. I understand there is major work to be done. I understand that such things are on the backburner.

However I, more then anything, want to run a massive fortress of 400 dwarves fighting a horde of 4000 goblins. I just want to see that before I die, really.
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Keiseth

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2008, 02:42:42 pm »

I'm grinning from ear to ear right now. It must be a scary sight.
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Dwarmin

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2008, 02:48:15 pm »

What peaked my interest:
Optional presence of some randomized plants/vermin??? One games poison is anothers cure..

Wound infection and some other diseases (Urist cancels sparring:Gangrene)

Appearance tags for the raws and associated data (beards, color, etc)

Make caves and the underground more interesting!!! Bring back the 50+ ratman raids over the chasm!  ;D   
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Untelligent

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2008, 03:51:24 pm »

II.B.1: Ability to chop down trees and dig

Just about the only objects you couldn't use as a weapon of some sort in adventure mode were trees and walls. Once these get put in, as well as construction removal and herbalism (well, you can set plants on fire, but I don't remember being able to pick them up), Dwarf Fortress will be one of the few games where you can use literally anything as a weapon. And by "anything," I don't mean any object you can think of *cough Dead Rising cough*, but anything you happen to come across, and I mean ANYTHING. Like the ground. Or a chunk of the wall.

Oh, and we'll be able to dig out mini-fortress in Adventure mode. That's interesting too.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2008, 05:24:29 pm »

The others of the few games are also roguelikes. In ADOM, you can chop down a tree and use the log as a weapon.
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ShunterAlhena

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2008, 05:41:27 pm »

This will be amazing. Almost all of my wishes, answered! Hell of a release to look forward to!!!
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Zai

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2008, 05:52:14 pm »

Quote from: LASD
The plans truly are amazing. There's not one thing I'm not waiting for, but my most anticipated parts are the premilinary Caravan Arc parts, ruler succession (and births) in regular game and the randomized creatures, plants and megabeasts. Oh, and also the adventurer home/hovel.

This is the same stuff I'm looking forward to most, with the additions of the rest of the Basic Army Arc and Adventurer Skills Preliminaries categories.
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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2008, 07:06:56 pm »

The others of the few games are also roguelikes. In ADOM, you can chop down a tree and use the log as a weapon.
Somebody's bound to ask what that is.
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Toady One

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2008, 10:19:37 pm »

Yeah, this'll come in more than one release.  Each of the highlighted yellow bits is a block of work, and after each yellow bit, there could be a release, though some are shorter than others and will be done with others before a release.  I can't release every day (the release process itself takes about 1 1/2 - 2 hours to get through my check list), but I don't want to get caught in multi-month cycles again either, if I can help it.  So I've got it organized like this.  The only order that is being vaguely specified is by the colors and the alphanumeric bit in front of each item, but I could do an adv skills yellow bit then jump to an army or caravan one.

Dr. Tardigrade, I'm not quite sure when adv mode travel will be realisticified (yeah)...  as soon as you can take care of yourself I guess it would be on the table, but I haven't sat down and worked through the details yet.

Dr. Tardigrade, I meant wound tracking mainly for regular play (though the units that are realized with world gen wounds will need them to so that they'll embarrassing themselves), so you'll have a specific breakdown of your wounds at some point -- in Dragslay, this was done at the same time as appearance variables, so that it would talk about your beard and the scar across your right eye and the fresh bruise on your stomach and so on.  It'll depend on the order of implementation, but it's definitely an in-play and not a world-gen item, mainly.

Dr. Tardigrade, the adventurer's group is the adventurer's group, but world gen should get similar things when I get the bandits attacking caravans, and that'll probably be stored in the same way.  Which comes first is up in the air and probably doesn't matter that much code-wise.

Dr. Tardigrade, on the languages, well, it depends here -- getting it to write books as in a better version of the legends screen, in translatable dwarvish with a written dwarvish script is very hard (and time-consuming!), yeah, but starting simple at first with NP trees and then sentence trees is really something a computer is good at, and the names already might as well be stored that way.  For the grammars, starting small, realizing the current "of" and "the" relationships, and altering the word order and realizing the currently untranslated prepositions etc. will be the start, and I don't think that'll make the names any more atrocious than they already are (and they should get more flavor that way).  Signs, weapon engravings and other small phrase instances could follow.  An entertaining idea after that would be to try to generate short poems or songs in the languages -- there's a lot more leeway for sounding bad here than there is in prose, though I understand there's some irritation with completely random crap -- it's possible to avoid that somewhat, but it's a larger project.  An ultimate goal would be attacking the book question, but the main issue is independent of in-game languages and that's getting the current legends sentences into abstract format and then back to the english -- not all of english has to be coded though, so it's much, much easier than some of the existing projects on the web, etc.  Dwarvish etc. are easier to do that english, because I have control of the rules and can make them suit my peace of mind.  Translations to other real-world languages might also be facilitated in this manner (with a lot of work on tree realizations in some sort of raw, but again much less work than the general web language projects).  Still, yeah, it's a tough project in many ways, and I certainly don't mean to be flippant about it, since I know some people build careers on this sort of thing, but the first steps should be both easy and yield immediately results, allowing simple new names like "The Battle of <site name>" through an extra branch on a phrase tree, as well as allowing changes in word order, phonotactic rules and so on to make the names slip out of the one existing format depending on the language.  It'll also introduce the possibility of dialects and language change over time, which virtually no one will care about...  hrm, anyway, this is more of a hobby thing, to entertain myself, he he he.

Dr. Tardigrade, yeah, that's correct on the region associations.  Ultimately, I'd like the pantheons etc. of the local civilizations to have some correlation to what's around them, and perhaps a random megabeast which has influence on a nearby region could also be said to have been spawned from a few of the gods in the local pantheon, etc etc etc.  Lots of fun times here -- the key is making sure the random stuff doesn't totally blow, and again it's something that can be eased into without causing too much of a trainwreck.  Though the trainwreck parts that slip in should be as entertaining as they are fixable, when it happens.  For those that don't think so, I've added the word "optional", he he he, since I know some people hate seeing a name put together by the computer, as hard as it tries.  I think part of the thing there will be giving them proper introductions and not just throwing them at you, and that's something that we're still thinking about.  Being able to familiarize yourself a bit with the lore its generated surrounding the critters will make it easier to stomach them -- you can even learn to deal with a gibberish name that way, though I want to try to avoid relying just on a gibberish generator and sort of merge in sphere and form related names...  we'll just have to see what works out and what doesn't.
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Zemat

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2008, 11:38:59 pm »

Heh, it took me some time to figure out who you where referring to.

On the theme of random creatures and names, you could use an hybrid approach. Instead of going just for completely random creatures, you could take existing creatures from the raws and make some mixes and mutations here and there. Then you could take the name or names of the original creatures and add some adjectives.

To add some legitimacy to the names, even if completely random, you could use as adjective the region where they come from or the god, goddess or sphere they are related to. For example "Mountainpeaks" Flying Jaguar, or Segum's (some god) Spitting Spider. Of course this might not work well if the original creature has already a complex multiword name. On the other hand you could use creature templates which specify the most common features of a creature (ie. humaniods) and work from there to create random critters. Then you could use the template's name to form the final name (ie. batman, spiderman and other copyright infringing names).

One last thing, this might not help you at all with the language thing. But learning something about a non-latin, non-saxon language could give you some ideas of how to create your arbitrary translator. I recommend you classical Nahuatl (other link), it's pretty easy to understand the basics and quite different from standard european languages. I learned the basics of sentence forming and grammar in a day just by toying with it.
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Zemat

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2008, 11:55:39 pm »

Some basic nahualt examples:

Huey Cueyatzintli = The Great Toad (includes an honorific at the end)

Ezoteotl Armok = God of Blood Armok
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 11:57:50 pm by Zemat »
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Jetman123

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2008, 09:10:04 am »

As soon as I saw it, I had a Fortressgasm.

I cannot _wait_ for some of this!
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