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[Tormy]

I wonder if non-native inhabitants of your fort still no longer need to eat, drink or sleep.

Yeah, sadly this part of the game won't be upgraded in the next version IIRC.

[Thndr]

Was edited because I didn't bother reading 2-3 posts before me until after posting >.>

Drawbridge displacement is a tricky thing. You could count it as destruction because it causes un-existence of a dwarf in whole (Thus destroying the dwarf), but it doesn't actually cause damage of any kind either.

Giving into hunger sounds more like starvation to me.

But butchering is also a technically non-injuring but death causing event.

[Neonivek]

Giving into Hunger is just what it is called in adventure mode (the list is more mechanical then contextual)... Your character doesn't actually starve to death he just flat out dies. (I don't know if he dies or if you could in theory find him in the middle of the wilderness where he eventually starves). The think aspect is that I don't know if it causes immediate death.

Head, Neck, Spine, Brain, and Body seem to be the only "Dirrect" Cause death organs. The rest usually just cause so much bleeding that you are bound to die.

Your right Butchering is another dirrect cause of death. It dishes out a "Death status"

1) Blood loss
2) Destruction of the Head, Neck, Spine, Brain, or body
3) Suffication/Drowning
4) Falling into a Chasm
5) Starvation/Thirst
6) Encased
7) Age
8} Giving into Hunger
9) Butchered

The Iffy Causes: These are causes of death that most likely are caused by one of the above but without a method of finding out
1) Displaced/Atomised
2) State Change
3) Splattered

You seemed to take out Atomizing as a seperate cause of death... hmmm

[Mel_Vixen]

Well i think an boozeplosion is instant death too and maybe steam if it ever comes back as deadly variant. Frozzen to death is possible too i think on very cold environments.

[Neonivek]

Well i think an boozeplosion is instant death too and maybe steam if it ever comes back as deadly variant. Frozzen to death is possible too i think on very cold environments.

I think Boozeplosion is State change. (then again I don't know it very well)

As for Frozen to death... Do you just freeze or do you take freezing damage until you die? (excluding being in water that freezes... Which counts as being encased)

If anyone tells me you can find an Adventurer who is "Giving into Hunger" alive... Then Ill take it off the list

Also I have little experience with it but I heard you can poison dwarves by modding rocks and stuff and turning it into vapour. What exactly does that do to them?

[Sean Mirrsen]

You can also get splattered by colliding with an obstacle. It works for both dropping and overpowered throwing, as proven by me throwing a still living harpy against a tree and having it "blow apart" without generating individual organ damage messages.

You can get crushed by falling rock. You can stateshift if the temperature is high enough - you don't burn, you just transform into a puddle of blood. Aannd I think that's all. I can't remember any other nonspecific causes of death. I don't remember if stepping into the HFS yields a different death message.

[Neonivek]

"as proven by me throwing a still living harpy against a tree and having it "blow apart" without generating individual organ damage messages"

Well you in theory COULD have simply destroyed its body and got a different message. So Ill put it in the iffy pile

You can get crushed by falling rock. You can stateshift if the temperature is high enough

Both in. Displacement and State change

[Astus Ater]

If anyone tells me you can find an Adventurer who is "Giving into Hunger" alive... Then Ill take it off the list.

Checked, in legends it states that they died of starvation.

[Grek]

I'm 99.9% sure that creatures cannot undergo state changes. They just take wounds from the heat untill they die of loosing too much blood or a cause death organ and then their dead body undergoes a state change.

[Neonivek]

At this point I think my list has a strong potential to take over the thread...

We should leave it alone for now. (or I guess I could remake it at another thread)

Perhaps Toady will Enlighten us at a later time anyhow.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I think being crushed by rock (especially being hit by a falling natural floor) tends to keep your corpse intact. State shifting can occur instantaneously, but usually only in unnatural situations, like after modding.

And the splattering is definetly a separate cause of death. "slams into an obstacle and blows apart" is the only damage message in that case, though it does require the target to be "in ragdoll state" at the time. I mean that it does happen to dead bodies, when a hit kills the victim and has its already-dead-but-not-quite-dead-yet body explode against a surface. To splatter a living creature, you have to throw it while it's unconscious - a feat I've been able to pull off only with harpies. If one passes out from pain while flying overhead, the time it takes it to enter prone state can be enough to throw it, which results in a splattery death. It literally transforms into a projectile and gets disintegrated upon impact.

[aaaabaaccaadfda]

This is hugely complicated guys just to warn you outright.

Why dont we introduce a ammount of force everything exibits. By this i mean how much force in that thrust, how much force did that titan use to squash that poor kity etc....

and then have biological damage effected by that force, damn this is complicated only with 3 sentances!

If this gets worked in dwarfs, elfs, humans if not all creatures will have realistic blood flows throught thier body and heck, we wont get weird hit locations for your spearman atacking that dragon, i mean this is one hell of a complicated system, but the realisim it brings with it is HUGE

i mean you'll have blood BURSTING from wounds, adventuers deing a painful, slow death from that GCS bite, you'll have a zombies head imploding from your hammerlords mace, i mean the list goes on and on.

I know what kind of coding is needed to do this, and the lag...... But wouldn't be cool to see that body's that you've fired out of your cannon have its arms and legs going flying in realistic directons, you'll have realistic battle sences were that deamon actually cracks the adventuers bones, with bits of bone sticking out of his hidiously ruined corpse, i mean that would be the ultimate fighting system.

I also know its out of game bounds etc, but as people are suggesting throughout the fourms you should be able to chose what or what you don't want in your fort.

Hopefully some people will be supportive of my idea, it adds a true touch of reallism to arbitary 'moves'.

[Footkerchief]

^^^ Giving strikes a notion of "force" is relatively simple.  The complex parts are a) making the body model more explicit about the shapes and positions of things (and remember, body parts move around) and b) letting the user control those bodies abstractly enough that movement isn't a chore, but also precisely enough to allow for aimed hits, etc.  These are both extremely difficult, especially for a game like DF, in which sizes and positions are inherently bizarre (due to it being tile-based, i.e. a dragon and a dwarf both take up 1 tile) and body parts are, at best, ambiguously shaped blobs rather than precisely modeled 3D objects.

There was a recent thread attempting to tackle these issues.  Be warned, LOTS of words.  (oh, and bjlong, sorry about abandoning that thread, I'll necro it sometime with a gigantic wall of text)

[bjlong]

Really, damage is a function of effective force, and how the damage is inflicted. If someone hits you with blunt damage, it will be absorbed by the jigglier layers, but smash the harder layers, and though the weapon does not travel into the body, the energy does. Which is somewhat complex. If someone hits you with something sharp, then the weapon itself travels through the body, and generally can't do as much damage to bones or such.

But, really, the effective force calculations we were talking about shouldn't be hard to code in if we get good measurements of length, weight distribution, and strength.

Don't worry about it, Footkercheif, I'm sure you'll come back to it when inspiration strikes.

Here's a question for Toady: I think I saw that the raws have the density of the layers making up creatures. (I could be wrong.) If this is the case, will the weight of creatures depend on how big each layer is? Also, do body parts have layers and layer thicknesses defined individually? (They probably do, just checking.)

[Patarak]

I think we need someone knowledgable in such calculations of force and pressure to help Toady get these calcs down.