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Author Topic: The NEW Future of the Fortress  (Read 353905 times)

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1035 on: December 17, 2008, 08:44:59 am »

How would it know it is invalid? Maybe you MADE it to instantly explode? These things shouldn't be just limited, or you get Oblivion.
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Alfador

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1036 on: December 17, 2008, 12:01:27 pm »

The boiling bronze equipment is the exact same problem that causes incompletely modded creatures to have boiling leather: default phase change points set to zero, which is far, far below any atmospheric temperature.

One might think Toady could fix this problem for malformed raws or incomplete loading by setting the default ignition/boiling/melting points to something that won't cause such immediate problems. This is true... but will probably only make it into a very late version. Why, you ask, would such a simple fix be delayed for so long?

Answer: Because having items instantly boil when they don't load properly is a good indicator of when things aren't loading properly. It will help Toady to find out where bugs exist.
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Random832

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1037 on: December 17, 2008, 12:59:02 pm »

The boiling bronze equipment is the exact same problem that causes incompletely modded creatures to have boiling leather: default phase change points set to zero, which is far, far below any atmospheric temperature.

Fix'd. There simply is no temperature in the physical world that comes anywhere close to DF's zero point (I actually don't get why he used a shift of 10000 instead of 1000 considering that absolute zero is only 428 degrees below water's freezing point)
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Neoskel

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1038 on: December 17, 2008, 01:36:24 pm »

Toady really should include some form of verification for invalid temperature data instead of just having the object instantly explode.

That is a verification.

*Boom*

"Oh, the temperature must be off."
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Thndr

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1039 on: December 17, 2008, 05:22:40 pm »

Toady really should include some form of verification for invalid temperature data instead of just having the object instantly explode.

That is a verification.

*Boom*

"Oh, the temperature must be off."
Would be good entertainment to have adult cats explode immediately. Embark with 150 kittens, leave them to adopt an owner and try to make a fortress that survives before armageddon.

Time trial mode.
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PTTG??

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1040 on: December 17, 2008, 05:59:07 pm »

Would be good entertainment to have adult cats explode immediately. Embark with 150 kittens, leave them to adopt an owner and try to make a fortress that survives before armageddon.

Time trial mode.
This is the new challenge, people!
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Kardos

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1041 on: December 18, 2008, 12:16:51 am »

Try to isolate a dwarf before one of those kittens manages to adopt him.  If you succeed, rename him Urist and build a tomb to his reclusive, life preserving grandeur.
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Neonivek

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1042 on: December 18, 2008, 12:31:47 am »

I think your somewhat assuming that Dwarf Fortress temperatures are as linear as real life temperatures
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Thndr

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1043 on: December 18, 2008, 01:45:42 am »

With the new tissue system, you can edit adult cats to be made entirely out of wood and alcohol. Maybe magma too, who knows.

It'll be almost like pokemon!

Stray Kitten (Tame) has evolved into Stray Cat (Tame)
-Stray Cat (Tame) used EXPLOSION-
Stray Cat (Tame) has been struck down!
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Walliard

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1044 on: December 18, 2008, 02:24:14 am »

I think your somewhat assuming that Dwarf Fortress temperatures are as linear as real life temperatures

They are. 1 degree Urist = 1 degree Farenheit.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1045 on: December 18, 2008, 03:53:48 am »

If you cant work with fahrenheit ,like almost everyone outside the USA*, 0 °C are 32 Fahrenheit. You go 1.8 °F up or down for every celsius up or down.

Quote
With the new tissue system, you can edit adult cats to be made entirely out of wood and alcohol. Maybe magma too, who knows.

We have an caste system now not an "Methamorphosis" system. Toady mentioned some problems with transfer of wounds to higher forms iirc.

You can make kittens "hot" right now without bif problems. With temperatures around 150 °C (302°F) every walk to the local booze dealer becomes an explosiv experience.

 *even the germans discarted that system althought Fahrenheit was an german scientist
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Cthulhu

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1046 on: December 18, 2008, 08:06:05 am »

Not related to exploding cats(Which totally rule), but I had an idea.  Quoted from the thread about how Gods don't answer you.

Quote
I'm sure we will eventually.  Maybe the new evil biomes will be evil due to some big monster, or an artifact, and you'll have to kill the monster or take the artifact to a volcano and destroy it to cleanse the area.  Your deity would assign quests like this for areas with opposing nature(A god of life and health would send you to cleanse an area based on pestilence, for example).

Actually, that's pretty cool.  I should quote this to the Future of the Fortress.
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Tormy

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1047 on: December 18, 2008, 08:15:47 am »

I don't really like that quoted idea to be honest. Evil areas should stay evil forever.

*edit*

We are under 1000 now! 12/17/2008: 983.  8)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 09:17:58 am by Tormy »
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Neoskel

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1048 on: December 18, 2008, 09:44:37 am »

Not related to exploding cats(Which totally rule), but I had an idea.  Quoted from the thread about how Gods don't answer you.

Quote
I'm sure we will eventually.  Maybe the new evil biomes will be evil due to some big monster, or an artifact, and you'll have to kill the monster or take the artifact to a volcano and destroy it to cleanse the area.  Your deity would assign quests like this for areas with opposing nature(A god of life and health would send you to cleanse an area based on pestilence, for example).

Actually, that's pretty cool.  I should quote this to the Future of the Fortress.

Only if reverse alignment gods give you quests to a: stop someone else from doing that and/or b: do the reverse by corrupting a good/neutral biome somehow. Maybe by specially contructing a corrupting artifact and installing it somehow, killing a particularly influential good creature or getting 'cursed' into becoming some hideous monster bound to that place and making it evil. And then you can mess with all that with your next adventurer. Would make for interesting legends, especially if it happens in worldgen too.
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Toady One

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Re: The NEW Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1049 on: December 18, 2008, 10:19:09 am »

>>> What are these "Map features" ?

Yeah, the underground diversity style stuff.  I'll just do it for a while and see what ends up there.

>>> If you don't mind me asking, Toady, where in NH did you live? I'm from the Conway area.

I used to live in Stratham, roughly during my high school years.  Now I live in Washington state.

>>> god form selection for flying ones

Yeah, it's the most boring thing possible.  Just their form in the description.  The changes broke the flying ones.

>>> Will the venom injection be simulated(As in, it will just check the venom type and apply whatever affect it's been given) or will the venom actually enter the victim's body?  If I set the temperature of the venom to 10,000 degrees, will the bitten person catch on fire?

The venom in the current version are already added to the creature and remain there for whatever the duration is, but it doesn't check temps on them.  I'm hoping to do that this time around so that fire snakes can be proper and the "liquid fire" extract can be more wholesomely amusing when dwarves are bitten.

>>> Apparently body part positions were done with realistic wound trajectories (for piercing, or planes for slashing) in mind, but where will those trajectories come from?

It's not all that interesting.  I just wanted to stop some of the strangest ones.  I didn't get into actually 3D coords or anything like you might find in a 3D game, as I didn't want to get bogged down again.  Just some basic adjectives.

>>> Also curious if the new "blocking" system will just re-use BLOCK_PERC at the tissue level or if it'll do something more sophisticated with material properties like hardness and compressive strength.

The latter, yeah, though sophisticated might be a stretch.  Block perc is gone anyway.

>>> I know you don't often do screenshots or movies, Toady, but it'd be neat to see how the wound testing goes if it hangs together in a viewable way, especially since it'll be a while yet before we see it in action.

There won't be a point until I get the text up, which'll come afterward, but I'll see what I can do when I get there.

>>> Alright one more day until we hear about how much Toady succeeded/failed with hillarious conciquences perhaps?

It's still a slow process, but more fun for me than what I was doing before.  I have to redo bleeding and nerve damage and all that, so it'll probably start with bloodless severs that'll eventually become more and more trying and diverse.

>>> Are we going to be able to see subtle differences between the dwarves? How will we know what they look like?

Yeah, paragraphs and distinct faces.  I haven't thrown in many descriptors yet as I haven't gotten to the paragraphs.  Right now it just specifies how widely and deeply set their eyes are and also their hair color for testing purposes.  When I get to the paragraphs, there will be many, many more.

>>> Actually, is there any way to mod molten goblins in to the current version?

In what sense?  Goblins that immediately melt into a pool and die, or goblins that remain molten and walk around?  In any case, temperature-related wounds are coming up at some point here, so it'll sort itself out.  I'd prefer if both cases are possible, but the latter is the more important one (for magma men).

>>> I actually don't get why he used a shift of 10000 instead of 1000 considering that absolute zero is only 428 degrees below water's freezing point

For later magical-type purposes, I wanted to be able to simulate heat gradients far beyond what's actually possible without special cases.  Otherwise I would have put 0K at 0DF, yeah.
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